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FRD: Ditto progress the damn sarge

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On 2/17/2019 at 9:33 AM, Ditto said:

Went to do nightgame with Limonaide and his friend. Shincoc was having a sleepover or something :classic_biggrin: but we are excited to game with him next time haha!

There were a lot of sets, and I didn't hook a lot of them well and ejected, none were truly getting blown out though. But for that reason there are probably a good 30-50% of opens that I totally forgot.

 

Playhouse - big Chinese club with really loud edm music and is either dance floor or a sea of tables

2 min set, opened some girls playing a dice game at a table. Tried to get them to show me how to play, only really got 3 out of 4 of their attention initially. When I'd get one interested, I'd try to hook another, and the first would lose interest again. This went on for a bit, I tried to get Limonaide to open a different girl himself to effectively reduce the set size, but it still didn't hook

Did some more opens that didn't hook because I felt like I was killing the mood by not jumping up and down to the music (everyone around us stopped lol)

5-8 minute set, realized that the only way I would really be able to open and get a reaction that wasn't frustration at barely being able to hear/understand my chinese or english was to open nonverbally. Opened HB Danson With a smile and the hand of god opener plus a spin. I opened her across the obstacle and the obstacles seemed happy but then repositioned themselves behind the target. I tried to grab Limonaide and his friend as wings a bit in but I don't think it stuck too well. Tried some loud communication and she was leaning in to talk to me, but I forgot all of the things we said. She convinced me to "dance" by just jumping up and down, and seemed happy when I complied after a couple tries. Everything was BT spikes and maybe a bit of comfort. Obstacles wanted to go get drinks so I did my best to help guide her through the crowd (from the back) and WC closed her at the bar before going back to the dance floor to optimize my time opening sets.

This reaction is normal when you havent been clubbing because your senses are overwhelmed by the environment which causes some overload on your ability to process and manage yourself. 

The initial 2 minute set in playhouse is pretty common, you're going to have a lot more shorter sets and need to be higher energy.

You can generally look at the type of music, the overall vibe and the amount of people and figure out how much energy is needed.

If its unclear, look for the people who are boring and seem like they aren't having any fun, then be the opposite of them, it's usually single men standing around using the creeper vision.

 

If they can't hear you, get closer, or use your phone.

It can be tough in loud Chinese clubs.

How far did you get with your kino on these girls?

 

On 2/17/2019 at 9:33 AM, Ditto said:

3-5 minute 3 set, all the girls were a bit standoffish but still interacting and smiling. Turns out it was a 6 set and they were with their boyfriends. Boyfriend 1 gave me a thumbs up or something at one point and I was like "yeah high five!" then later I think I reopened the set and the boyfriend made it clear they were together. Then he tried to get me to join him in the jumping, I signaled that I wouldn't, smiled, waved to them all and moved on. (I assume this was the right move, as letting some random guy lead me would be a DLV right?)

1 minute set, solo set seems interested and is pretty cute, but is telling me no she doesn't want to dance together or do any handshakes or the like. I keep seeing her while in other sets and she keeps looking at me but I don't know what to do. Probably should have invited her out to a quieter area.

After that sets were more compliant as I was willing to "dance" and did entirely nonverbal openers for the most part. We made our way back and forth between sides of the dance floor and did some easy opens on the way for confidence and calibration. One 3 set that was actually pretty cute did the no thanks 2 handed wave and was persistent about not hooking even after a few spins and handshakes and other silly gestures I felt like doing at the time.

10-15 min set, We went outside to let our ear drums heal and for a quick chat about how to proceed. Limonaide opened a sitting 3 set with 1 guy. Opened across the guy and complimented him first, it was good. He brought me in to wing and I ran some BT spikes and comfort on the girl about where we lived and studied. Qualified her on her great drawing, that since I have no artistic ability I need someone who does to balance me out. (I was going to say so my kids can be talented at everything, but I'm still not sure if that's a really bad frame) I started losing momentum as I wasn't thinking at full speed and stopped thinking of things to say. BS palmreading fell through bc she actually knew how to palm read LOL. Limonaide and I discussed what to do across the set and decided to bounce them inside to dance and find their friends, their friends turned out to be guys and they invited us to their table. WC closed my girl and we went back to opening.

The random guy bringing you in - really hard to say, it could be totally fine, you also have to consider that it may have been giving you access to the girls, which would be worth it as you could reDHV while there.

1 minute set - if she isnt giving you the normal levels of compliance, try for the one she is giving you, if none chase a different girl.

The non verbal stuff - the main reason it works is that its low compliance and more fun, the fun is what makes people want to interact with you.

The palm reading girl - if she knew how to palm read and you were stuck, flip it around and get her to palm read you/teach you how and then flip it back by asking her how she got into it, how it's impressive show knows how to do that etc etc (qualification) as most girls don't and are boring.

 

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On 2/17/2019 at 9:33 AM, Ditto said:

Jellyfish

Did some silly shuffling through the crowd to the music, smiled a lot like RPQ told me to in bootcamp. Tons of good responses and 2 or 3 easy opens that I didn't know where to take or I decided to look for higher quality girls.

One 4 set lasted about 10 minutes, short girl reasonably cute, tried opening across the set and I should have gone for the one in the middle, even though I couldn't get proximity to her. Set went okay, target was pretty drunk and extremely compliant and wanted my attention. Turns out after 10 minutes or so, she had a boyfriend and the other girl might not have. How do you deal with that?

Moops? -Club with mostly tables, a bar in the main room, and a bouncing dancefloor

Opened a couple girls, they hooked, but it fell short on momentum because all I could do is jump around and most weren't interested in leaving the dancefloor so soon. I opened a few sets like this and the third hooked pretty well and was smiley and complaint. I can't remember, after about 15 minutes of jumping, their interest died down and they didn't want to go off the dance floor. It might have been my mental state or that I was starting to get off beat at some points too. Eventually ejected and looked for other sets but didn't hook most. Held up one of the frills on one girls dress and gave her an approving look, she seemed thoroughly conflicted and left haha

Lol yeah smile a lot, can't let those normies know you're actually a robot.

It's good that you're seeing where you needed to do things differently, a lot of people struggle with this, i imagine your disconnect from the situation actually is what makes this easier for you.

On 2/17/2019 at 9:33 AM, Ditto said:

Jellyfish again

Opened a mixed 7 or 8 set on the dancefloor, my target and I had exchanged a couple of looks before and so I waved her over and she came, danced for me a bit and then took me back to her friends. Found out who she was there with by asking one of the guys, while complimenting them all. She was next to me but scooted to the other side of the circle as I tried to make sure the whole set was hooked. BT spiked them all a reasonable number of times and went off to go open some other girls while increasing preselection from my target.

While opening a mixed 3 set, a girl behind me spilled her drink on the back of my shirt. I kept thinking I could use that as an opener since she was relatively cute, but I couldn't think of what to do.

Ran into a 2 set of girls hugging, held out my arms for a hug from both. I thought it was funny but then one left and the other (a 4 or 5 at best in china) grabbed onto me and basically tried to rape me in the club. I figured I'd let her go at it for a minute or two just for the experience, but then the thought occurred to me to just directly ask her to leave and go to her place (my brother is staying at my airbnb with me.) She said wait a second and I said okay and went to look for my actual target. She was gone along with the whole set. I will say I regret nothing, but I regret it lol.

Opened a couple more sets, one 4 set I tried to bounce for food with my friends but they said they weren't hungry. Met Limonaide and co. and we talked about his set and what to do for a bit and then the one who was intent on having my babies walked outside and I told her let's go together, I wanted some practice for the things I learned in the sex seminar even if I had to sacrifice a bit of my pride for it. The practice was pretty awful. LR coming soon

You should NC her before you go back to the friends, just say that your phone is going to run out of power soon as the reason to do it, it doesn't matter how much power it has, they will accept the excuse.

Spilled drink opener - it's not ideal.....lol.

What drink was it?

You could use it to ask girls where to get napkins and then what they're drinking, it will be a little strange though.

Lol the rape experience.

Sounds like a great t shirt 'I went to China and all I got was raped by a 5'

 

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7 hours ago, kanevast said:

Perfect.

When you're feeling chodey, you should just do whatever you can do to get the ball rolling....or...slightly shifting forwards.

Her reaction of i dont intend to see you again' is usually just a lack of comfort, also how did you phrase the 'be my valentine'?

From her perspective, it may come across as 'lets fuck on valentines day'.

You did a good job by just starting.

Hahaha thanks! Turns out she has a boyfriend, who she says she loves very much. I just kept DHV'ing myself and now for days she's been asking me to come visit her, and then come visit her kindergarten, and so on. 

 "Oh right it's valentine's day! \n Do you want to be my valentine today?" It was at the point I had already taken a train to Chengdu so we couldn't have seen each other physically again that day. So idk, probably that she had a bf

7 hours ago, kanevast said:

Sounds like you were doing well.

Who was the other girl?

You can deal with it by involving her in the convo and using her to enhance it, either by pushing her to talk about herself or to tell you about the other people if she knows them.

Other girl was some random nobody knew. Turns out she kept asking everyone about their religion.

How would asking her to talk about herself enhance the convo? As a DHV that I'm a social person or something?

My target in this set is moving to Shanghai for school, and we're still messaging regularly. She says she's excited for us to see each other again. Though in the past couple of days I haven't said anything really intriguing or gamey so I should fix that

7 hours ago, kanevast said:

Why did you just leave if you were getting compliance?

Not cute enough, I wanted to game some girls that I'd be happy gaming

7 hours ago, kanevast said:

5th - sounds reasonable, have you followed up with her?

Girl and mom set I messaged after we were done. "Hey! Did you guys have a good dinner?" "yep. it's not bad" "That's good haha, what'd you get? I bet I can guess your blood type based on what you ate" And then no response haha. Messaged her happy lantern festival 4 days later and she said thank you. She's from dongguan so I don't want to burn out my wc quota on her entirely, but I can at least test some stuff

7 hours ago, kanevast said:

6th Were you not interested? or?

I liked the green hairstyle, but not interested

7 hours ago, kanevast said:

7th Nice bt spike.

You should pretend you understand and offer some answer and then if its wrong she will clairfy.

Smooth interactions are more important than her understanding everything or you understanding everything completely.

Yeah stop apologizing for your poor Chinese.

Thanks haha! Earring girl has been responding to my occasional messages occasionally, sent me some pictures of the fireworks. More than I'd expect for such a short set I guess. I could probably dhv more and try to get her interested, she was reasonably cute I think

I opened her in English "your earrings are so big, did they hurt to put in" and she just went, "I don't speak english" So I did the Chinese. I think the idea of smooth interactions over complete understanding is a really good idea though, I'll try to keep it in mind

I think I'm apologizing less now haha

Edited by Ditto
Forgot to reply to something

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6 hours ago, kanevast said:

You can generally look at the type of music, the overall vibe and the amount of people and figure out how much energy is needed.

If its unclear, look for the people who are boring and seem like they aren't having any fun, then be the opposite of them, it's usually single men standing around using the creeper vision.

Hahaha, yeah I didn't really see many of them. My eyes are only adjusted to see girls or dangerous looking guys. The fact you can calibrate to the type of club makes a lot of sense though, not something I really would have thought of 😂

6 hours ago, kanevast said:

If they can't hear you, get closer, or use your phone.

Ah, I should have eventually pulled out my phone more. Would have also told me if they spoke English. Chinglish in yelled form can be pretty rough to understand. I tried to do the lean back and point at my ear, they usually tried a couple of times. And then I'd actually feel a bit bad for them because I couldn't hear them still

6 hours ago, kanevast said:

How far did you get with your kino on these girls?

Mostly just arm touching and some back touching to lead them where I wanted them. Kino was not quite up to snuff that night. Funny because I'm usually pretty aggressive with the kino

6 hours ago, kanevast said:

The random guy bringing you in - really hard to say, it could be totally fine, you also have to consider that it may have been giving you access to the girls, which would be worth it as you could reDHV while there.

Ah that's a good point. Though since they all had boyfriends it seems like that was a little higher effort than I wanted to go that night haha

6 hours ago, kanevast said:

1 minute set - if she isnt giving you the normal levels of compliance, try for the one she is giving you, if none chase a different girl.

You mean imitate it and give her low compliance as well? Or just see if she'll stand next to me and have some kind of implicit agreement that we're dancing together

6 hours ago, kanevast said:

The non verbal stuff - the main reason it works is that its low compliance and more fun, the fun is what makes people want to interact with you.

The palm reading girl - if she knew how to palm read and you were stuck, flip it around and get her to palm read you/teach you how and then flip it back by asking her how she got into it, how it's impressive show knows how to do that etc etc (qualification) as most girls don't and are boring.

Haha fun is good! And yeah I didn't actually think about it being low compliance because it's so out of the ordinary

Wow, great play as always haha. I'm mad I didn't think of that

5 hours ago, kanevast said:

Lol yeah smile a lot, can't let those normies know you're actually a robot.

HA! Hey I do a pretty great job of optimizing my social programs to keep processing requirements low okay

6 hours ago, kanevast said:

It's good that you're seeing where you needed to do things differently, a lot of people struggle with this, i imagine your disconnect from the situation actually is what makes this easier for you.

Hahaha, I think you pretty much nailed that one. I haven't seen much benefit in having emotional responses anyway, so why let it get in the way of my optimizing my game right

6 hours ago, kanevast said:

You should NC her before you go back to the friends, just say that your phone is going to run out of power soon as the reason to do it, it doesn't matter how much power it has, they will accept the excuse.

What does NC mean? I guess I should have asked how long they'd be there too, that way I'd have known if i should come back sooner or try to just re hook my target.

 

6 hours ago, kanevast said:

Spilled drink opener - it's not ideal.....lol.

What drink was it?

You could use it to ask girls where to get napkins and then what they're drinking, it will be a little strange though.

Yeah, I would prefer not to be there to begin with. But you know, when life gives you lemons, distill out the L-ascorbic acid and sell it on ebay

Not sure, I think it was pretty watered down because it didn't leave any marks that I could see. Nice and cool though

That makes sense. I just realized I should have done what you told me to do once though and helped her clean up, then started unbuttoning my shirt. Saying "it's not clean, would you help me with this?"

6 hours ago, kanevast said:

Lol the rape experience.

Sounds like a great t shirt 'I went to China and all I got was raped by a 5'

Well I can say I did it once now, once was enough. Please send get well soon cards to help speed my recovery

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Sun 17 Feb

ShinChoc and his french club promoter guy, as well as Limonaide and co. wanted to do some night game. We met at Playhouse at 11 or 12, moved to the area with all the clubs we visited during the sex seminar

This was about half a week ago before I turned into a mess of phlegm and pain, I'm pretty sure I forgot a lot of the decent sets I had

 

Playhouse

I believe Limonaide and co. arrived first and we went in to open some before ShinChoc arrived. Limonaide wants me to open a set (thanks for keeping me always going man), and it looks like a 2 set, 3 or 4 minutes at the coat check probably. Handshakes and spins, bring in Limonaide quickly. FORGOT LOGISTICS DISCOVERY. My girl wechat closes me.

We go in and I feel weird dancing again so I go open some sets that are dancing on the tall bench things, most don't really hook or I realize that upon her turning around, I'd rather pursue other sets. Might have had a couple decent opens on the dancefloor, I don't remember

ShinChoc arrives and we go outside to talk a bit. He was the one who actually got me to do a dancing open during the sex seminar, and was pretty much my inspiration for my silly dance opens haha. Silly open a set or two. I find the 2 set from earlier, it's actually a 3 (5?) set with their friends, a couple, wandering in and out. My girl waves, I come back into set and proceed with the goofy dancing. Tonight there are actually a lot of drops in volume in the music, sometimes for effect, sometimes because they want to pretend everyone's singing even though the place isn't nearly that packed. I can actually hear her "you're really good at dancing!" I almost lose it laughing. Big body language and no regard for other peoples' opinions is apparently enough of an attraction trigger to seem good at dancing 😂. Limonaide reopens his girl, Danny wants me to introduce him to the other girl (the one with the boyfriend, not the other single one, it was a weird situation or I hadn't understood the set yet) I yelled, "this is my other brother" and then pushed them both towards each other (this is in a line formation so it doesn't cut anyone off really

Stay in this set 45 minutes to 1 hour+. Got a lot of IOI's from other girls during this set but I wanted to run it long. Danny comes up to me to suggest I isolate after probably 10 or 15 minutes. Right. I ask my girl if she wants to go somewhere we can hear better. I'm sweating so she thinks it's probably a good idea. We go to the bar and I get a water, I think I just ask for 2 without thinking and give her one haha. Limonaide and his friend come in with their respective girls (the other 2 single ones from the set.) Limonaide positions perfectly, his girl back to back with mine. I start with some small talk and that was fun and answering comfort questions while I wrack my brain trying to remember what my routine stack is. Decide to throw in some more DHV's because why not. She mentions a couple times that she's really attracted to me, I alternate between "I know" and "that's good, I like you too." She wants to try skydiving, don't know what other qualification I did. She kept asking to take pictures with me, and took some pictures of me dancing. I know now this is for her vlog (I assume this is fine right? As long as I don't set unrealistic expectations about being bf/gf?). 

Seed her visiting me in California, cat cafes, park on top of the mall. She asks how many girlfriends I have. 43. WHAT. Yeah! No just kidding none right now. After this I work in how I only like girls who like me, that all 3 of my long term girlfriends slept with me on the first or second date. A little while later she mentions how her last boyfriend cheated and that's why she's at the club. I say that's not okay, you have to at least be honest. Relationships are only good if everyone is keeping each other happy and they care for each other. (Is there a better response to this?) 

At a few points she talks about how cute she thinks some of the girls are, I try to encourage this. Asking which ones, nodding approvingly, and giving all the smiles and nice's I could. She wants to go dance some more, okay. They tell us 15 minutes before they're leaving at 2, I walk them out. Leading or pushing(directing) my girl if she gets ahead, though I should just lead harder instead of letting them discuss directions to escape the noise box. I take the time going to coat check to make a good last memory, and time bridge cat cafe on Wednesday.

    She was pretty kino compliant d1 even though I tried to keep from escalating too fast. I was thinking that I didn't want to trigger resistance when I was still adjusting to the environment and getting back into game. I started with the hands and arms, tickled her exposed sides and back sometimes, stuck some tissue paper I caught in the front of her pants, slid my hand up the back of her shirt once, but most kino was on the arms and when getting her to do a silly dance with me. Oh I guess I did spank her at one point, I must really have a thing for that 😂

Opened a decent amount more sets I think but none were super memorable, one time guys got up in my face and tried putting hands on me pushing my arms down (they couldn't they were either weak of body or spirit) while I tried to ask what the flashing pacifier shaped like a cat was in this one girl's mouth. After about a minute of this and a translation from Limonaide, I smiled and waved bye bye to the pacifier girl. Not sure if these guys were just drunk and belligerent, but even most of the guys who handle guys talking to their girls poorly handle it better than that haha. Or maybe they had seen me going around encroaching on peoples' table space?

5-15 mins. Open one 3 set dancing on a podium by jumping on the outside and pretending I am going to fall. I reach out, save me! Very little reaction. I laugh and say if they don't help me I'll be in trouble, not that they hear it. After a bit of determination I motion I'm coming inside, they let me. I push one like a klutz but more or less recover by helping her back up. I scoot them all over a bit since everyone's sitting on the railing. 3rd girl leaves, she's the one who doesn't want to have anything to do with guys opening her, how do these girls reproduce lol. Okay but seriously how do I open girls like these? Do you just open really softly, or maybe it has to seem a lot more natural? I just smile. Wing doesn't want to come in so I just run the set a while. Compliment one girl's choker. The other ones dress or something. They are both okay attractive and I can't decide, and in my late night mind I just decide to give both attention. At first they seem to feel awkward when I "switch targets" but then after a minute or two they're both smiling a lot and really enjoying it. I know this is only attraction but I wonder if you can keep that up haha. I decide to get more practice and eject. I kiss the hands of the two girls still there and wave goodbyes.

Botch a couple opens, ShinChoc, Limonaide, and their friends are not in set either anymore, I ask if they want to head out. Sure. Jump back up and reopen the 3 set again because I thought it'd be better than walking by them. Third girl is back, unhappy lol. A guy turns around, forget what he does but doesn't like me there. Smile at him. Motion to see if ShinChoc wants to join. No. Take the 2 girls hands, shake, deep bow, offer hand to third girl, she moves her hands away before I can even get close. I make an "I didn't need you anyway" face and wave my hand between us. Other 2 think this is funny, but she actually seems kind of sad that I did that. I don't know what to make of this. New theory: she's actually waiting for more validation and wants to feel like the relationship is "natural." I don't know how to affect that though.

 

Other clubs

It was late so some of the clubs were outright dead or almost dead. Some really good tips for how to navigate them from ShinChoc though.

Open with ShinChoc in a bouncing stage club was going really well until the boyfriend who was right there started trying to make himself known. Good BT spikes on her shirt. ShinChoc mentions after that I should point to myself and not at them when trying to reference something so I don't make them feel nervous.

One open I open the guy and ask if the girl behind him is with him. No. He gets up. Took too long? She wants none of it, no English, no Chinese, she gets up and walks away.

Last notable open is on a raised platform with a rail slightly higher than the dance floor. Girl is watching. I open poorly asking about her dress. Are you two here together. No. Very little more chat. She steps away. Okay, ShinChoc want a chance? Nah, go again. Hey so are you a princess or something? She walks away entirely. I try to open the other girl (who was actually her friend) She doesn't respond either. I go back after talking to ShinChoc a bit about where to go next. Before we leave he says open her again. I do, she still waves no but she's not actually leaving at this point hahaha. Left for the next venue and eventually did a debrief with ShinChoc over breakfast

 

Things I did well:

-I did whatever I wanted on the dance floor and it worked. Come to think of it I do whatever I want pretty well

-I didn't hesitate to open at all that I can recall

-I got a good timebridge that turned into a d2!

-I ran a long set and never really lost too much momentum

-I opened obstacles and made the friends like me

Things I will improve:

-I will always always ALWAYS remember to do logistics discovery early in set (this is basic optimization I can't believe I'm forgetting it)

-I will find ways to use social proof even more effectively

-I will focus a bit more on my kino escalation/calibration

-I will stay in set a little longer in sets I'm not interested in so that it appears I am doing well to other girls who are observing

-I will wear appropriate clothing outside and sleep and eat healthy so I don't get a shitty sickness while I should be gaming

Realizations:

-I have actually gotten a lot better at this!

-Guys usually have no idea how to deal with another guy hitting on their girl for some reason, even if they hang out in places where it's hard to tell who's with who

-Girls that dress well seem to be more responsive to being opened

-Smiles while walking by seem to make opens easier, should have used that more

-Other guys pushing you to open makes it a challenge and really makes AA pretty small

Edited by Ditto
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Yeah, you definitely seemed to have leveled up substantially in the approaching realm, and your body language and walk is killer! Our second night out when you were sick I copied some of your persistence and high energy, and noticed it had a positive effect on all of the people I encountered 💪🏾💪🏾

15 hours ago, Ditto said:

Open with ShinChoc in a bouncing stage club was going really well until the boyfriend who was right there started trying to make himself known. Good BT spikes on her shirt. ShinChoc mentions after that I should point to myself and not at them when trying to reference something so I don't make them feel nervous.

 

I think that I said the reverse. I remember saying something about how you should gesture and point at them more on the open, since I think that kind of body language is more likely to get girls hooked and standing still, since you are gesturing right at them. And from there during convo you can gesture and point at yourself when you are trying to emphasize a point. Is worth experimenting with. On that note, on that set that I had you reopen multiple times, I really liked that one move you did where you pointed at your face and gave her a big grin. I'm gonna use that  😁

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On 2/21/2019 at 1:06 AM, ShinChoc said:

Yeah, you definitely seemed to have leveled up substantially in the approaching realm, and your body language and walk is killer! Our second night out when you were sick I copied some of your persistence and high energy, and noticed it had a positive effect on all of the people I encountered 💪🏾💪🏾

Thanks man! I just wish I had been able to go out more with you guys so we could all continue learning from each other!

On 2/21/2019 at 1:06 AM, ShinChoc said:

I remember saying something about how you should gesture and point at them more on the open, since I think that kind of body language is more likely to get girls hooked and standing still, since you are gesturing right at them.

Ah okay, I know we talked about this a bit on Thursday, but what you said makes a lot of sense. I also think that gesturing to bring the girls focus, or maybe even her emotional focus towards you or herself could be a pretty strong tool that would be fun to play with.

I hope the point and grin move works out for you! It seemed like the best option I had at the moment haha!

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Haven't updated this in way too long. I'll write the sets that I remember in roughly chronological order

 

In Chengdu. Opened some sets with Danny and the french dude.

3-5 minute set. Wanted to prove to the french guy that you could still use bad chinese and run the beginning of your sets. Girl, stop! Opened in English to lower her expectations, then she replied in perfect English. Oh well.  I like your blonde hair, why did you decide to dye it? Her coworkers all do. Ask where she works etc. Too much PIE and not enough dhv'ing, too soon. She leaves to say hi to her friend in the apple store. I wave to the friend. She smiles and waves back

2-3 minute set. Opened a girl walking quickly bc she had good fashion. What does your shirt say? No English. I ask in Chinese. She shows me. Going quickly, she has to get home bc it's late. Try to get her to stop I think, she doesn't. I try to use lots of body language, ask her if she's a fashion designer or something. Yes. Wechat close quickly and she goes with a wave and a see you

10-15 minute 5 or 7 set? French guy was saying that I'd be weirded out it people did to me the strange things I do to them lol, he'd pay someone 20 kuai to test it. I open them telling them he wants to pay them 20 kuai to make me feel uncomfortable. I find my target, short cute girl with an anime sticker on her phone. I run a 4 set while french guy talks to the one good English speaker about his plan. I BT spike a good amount and kino my target, other girls and some older parents/grandparents seem to be enjoying the spectacle. Eventually some random guy comes up behind me and does something silly, a weird pose or handshake I think? I just mirror him and laugh, then I give him a handshake and spin him too. Everyone laughs. After a bit we say goodbye and go to find ShinChoc again who was in a good 30 or 45 minute set.

10 minute 2 set. ShinChoc opened, I ran interference on the obstacle. We were trying to show french guy how wing game worked but eventually he came by and just sat around us because he was bored. I brought him in to talk to the obstacle and help me out. There's no downside to this if I don't like the obstacle right?

 

In Guangzhou. Opened one girl who was giving me a look when I was out of it, I left the store but decided to open anyway and went back in. Do you want to come with me to see my friend play guitar? (Didn't actually know if Kirby was playing lol.) What? No, I'm okay. She leaves. I try to say wait you'll like it it's really fun! It seems most of these opens where I kinda bitch out then come back go really poorly. Is this just some limiting belief that changes the way I approach when I do this? Or do the girls actually find it a bit weird

 

In Beijing. Opened 2 half japanese girls on the tour in front of my brother. It was such a simple natural opener that he didn't really think anything of it though. Immediately hooked them and DHV'd a lot. Had good rapport the rest of the day despite them being foreign born asians. Sadly they were both a little chubby for my taste lmao. RIP my western culture. 

Bitch opened a cute 3 set that might have been Japanese on top of a high point by just going "not high enough." Thought I'd get blown out so I bitched out before I even opened. When I got the good reaction I didn't know what to do and kept going. Rationalized that they'd catch back up to us. What. Was. I. Thinking. Oh well, this serves as good motivation to ignore any AA.

Opened a tour group on top of the wall with a cute Scandinavian girl. Told her I liked her jacket with a viking logo. Nice. Told her I'd race her to the end even though my legs were shot and I had a backpack, because it'd be a good challenge then. Good reactions and BT spiked the whole group so they liked me. Probably a total of 10 minutes as we took turns passing each other. Went well, no wc close because obviously bad logistics lol

Made everybody like me in the hostel. Always good. The one girl that I thought was decently cute and worked there I didn't get a chance to game too hard though because she always slept early and I didn't push as hard as I should have if I really wanted to

 

Things I did well:

-I opened a lot of sets I would have otherwise let go

-Less fluff talk than before

 

Things I will improve:

-Open MORE sets that I still let walk by, even if they're inconvenient

-I will update and use my routine stack more so that I can troubleshoot better

-I will approach more hot girls until I can figure out how to more reliably get them to stop and let me game them lol

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In Shanghai:

Opened a lot of sets that just walked by because I didn't give them enough space to see me trying to stop them, or I blanked on what to say. I NEED TO MAKE MORE EYE CONTACT.

2-3 minute set. KV was in set with another girl and I opened a girl on her phone at a railing in the mall. Who are we going to meet? Huh? You're looking for your friends right? (Should have said our friends haha) Yeah. How many? 3 I think. Nice! High five. You should come join us instead. I gesture to Kane and his girl who he's been amazingly managing to get to stay even though she keeps saying she has to go. I figured this would help his girl feel more comfortable if I had someone to talk to and we were in a group, but in hindsight it might have been just as well that I would be within view. Decent kino compliance but her friends messaged her and she had to go.

3 minute 2 set. Blue hair girl with lensless harry potter glasses, her friend is absolutely terrible though. I tell her to try them on and she smiles and hands them to me, so I do and joke that I can see her much better or something like that. I tell her I want to see her wear them. Very cute. What are you doing today. More BT spikes. Tell her we're going the other way and for them to have fun. She tries to have me keep the glasses. Kane has to translate that I wouldn't feel right taking them from a girl. Eject and then Kane explains that her keenness was super high and that I should probably try for that. Chase back after them and wc close saying I forgot I had to get her wechat. Spend 5 more minutes in set speaking my bad Chinese from that day and then we go.

 

2 minute set on the street. Want to know what these 3 girls uniforms are for. No English. Try to understand their answer in Chinese. They are going to work. They're clothing salesmen lol. High fives and let them go. Probably could have wechat closed since they work close to my hotel.

1 minute set. Almost at hotel, make a joke to one 3 set I walk by. They're not very good so I continue. See a cute girl and say I like her hat, does she want to trade (I have no hat). No English. Start with Chinese and the 3 set I just passed was meeting her at the street corner. She's relatively compliant but the other 3 want to go. Kept walking with them for 30 yards to my hotel. They thought the hat thing was funny. Said goodbye to target and tried to get a high five because, she didn't want to and I said awww please. No lol. Okay, see you!

 

Some night game with KV.

Arrived early, opened one 2 set who was outside smoking. One girl wasn't bad so spent about 10 minutes in set. Target doesn't speak English well, obstacle does. Should have used this more and had her translate. Tried to do a hand motion for a smoke that I saw Brizzo do once and was curious what they'd do. They laughed and I explained that I saw my friend do it once, even though I don't smoke. They were there together. I'm from california, you're from France! No, Singapore. The target is from China though. Set was reasonably compliant, then they wanted to go back inside and I said I'd see them later.

Bitch opened a lot of sets, wasn't opening in English for some reason like a retard.

First good set KV opens a 2 set with roller skates. 10 minutes or so. Brings me in and says his girl roller skated all the way here carrying the other girl. I do the long handshake intro, she tries to pull away a couple of times and I laugh after I let her hand go. DHV, do some PIE without much qualification. I think I did a bit though. Shortly into the set KV's girl exclaims that he's a pickup artist and was on such and such tv show. My girls turns and KV is laughing, he'd opened her around 3 years before. I wanted to say who's KV, but wasn't sure what he'd said. My girl is confused, I explain that he teaches guys how to talk to girls. What? Does that really work? Well your friend seems to be having a pretty good time so I'd think so! I ask her if she wants to try it and reach down to physically pick her up. She steps back and goes no no! She is smiling and enjoying the conversation more and more as time goes on, and then Sean arrives and I say hi and introduce him. Eventually we let them go and the girl immediately looks disappointed, maybe because I didn't ask for her wechat lol

3 minute 5 set. Open what looks like a solo set who is keen, I tell her I really like her hair. Before I can get to logistics her friends join her. I forget to bring KV in and he has to position himself to take the obstacles like he had a couple of other times already. Her friends want to go because they're having a get together at her house. I compliment her necklace and pick it up, she seems slightly uncomfortable but lets me. KV exclaimed cat ears, and I laugh and tell her I got excited because I like that. Maybe that weirded her out I don't know lol. As they're leaving I say hey wait a second, you should give me your wechat. As her friends are trying to drag her away she tells them to wait and I scan her qr code but either she never accepted it or I went full retard and didn't actually send the request. 😰 Too bad because she was my favorite girl that night. Lesson learned, do it the same way every time or at least be careful with the ones I want to work

3-4 minute 2 set. I open a girl waiting in the road for her didi by asking where we're going. She laughs and immediately is very compliant. I actually remember to bring KV in on time this time. BT spikes, kino, wc close. Ask her why we're all going to her house. Because she wants to go home, maybe sleep? I think she wasn't super clear about us not coming along but I didn't push it even though I probably could have lol. 

5 minute 3 set. Open a girl with a not great face but great fashion and tell her she's got a nice hairstyle. Rearrange them so Kane is running a 2 set most of the time and we're switching off keeping the obstacle busy. My girl is just drunk and touching and hugging a lot. My hands are cold, yeah I don't know why they are today. I'm probably dying, she should come with me since it's my last night on this earth. Forget the response. She keeps asking and I joke that maybe I'm actually a vampire. Her too. Kane says to tell her to prove it. I do, and show her my neck. She bites it just hard enough to not leave a mark haha. I tell her she's good, just hard enough to be fun. I instinctively draw back a bit when she leans in like she might try to kiss me. Not sure if that was too obvious but her friend definitely noticed. I didn't want to trigger ASD already, plus I was kinda turned off by how drunk she was. Wc close and she kisses me on the cheek before they leave.

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Opened a couple sets today. Two didn't hook because I was sleepy and didn't speak loud enough

Third was at the metro station where I saw a girl who looked reasonably cute walk after me through the exit turnstile. Are you following me! She laughs. Darn too bad she's older and doesn't have great skin. Stay in set for a few minutes anyway walking to the exit. Mostly BT spikes, she doesn't speak too much English so I fill in with Chinese. Traveling. Dance instructor. Me too! Just kidding, but that's really cool (should have added she could teach me or something). Forgot to do logistics discovery until 2 min in, she's meeting her friend. She misspeaks that her friend is waiting for me. Waiting for me!? I mean of course she is *grin*. She laughs and when we find her friend she lingers a bit and looks at me. I tell her I'll see her and kino a little long as we're parting ways

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Did Soupernoob's boot camp with him over the weekend.

Friday night game

Opened 2 good sets. 45-60 min First was a 3 set that walked by us and I instinctively started speaking Chinese at her. She laughed kept walking past while looking back us so I reopened in the line to A life and wechat closed. Spent more time with her in the club after dancing and running some game. She k-closed me and I time bridged her for Tuesday. Spent 20 minutes leading her around trying to help her find her friends again.

Second set was a 6 set in line for the coat check. Everyone's in black, she's in white. Is she an angel? Goofy gesture. Laughs and not quite hooked, BT spike more with something about her hair I think. 10 minute set. Did attraction and qualification, lots of kino. TIme bridged and line closed then ejected so I could go help wing Soupernoob

 

Saturday day game

Opened a girl who was moving with a purpose. She turned around a lot (not sure if lost or also trying to shake me off) kept talking until she took out her earphones, led her to wherever she was trying to go, line closed on the street while walking. No English. Night worker she called herself?

 

Night game

A life again. Didn't approach much for a while. Got blown out over and over for a while, some 3-5 sets walking past turned away and kept going, usually a situational opener applied too late, one time I was even too loud I think, it sounded like I was shouting. A few 3+ sets on the dance floor because it had the most people, most blew me out or tried to close ranks on me lol, most openers were hand of god and smile, but I was kinda unhappy about getting blown out repeatedly so it didn't help

8-12 minutes. Opened the girl who was being ignored in a 2 set. Immediately responsive. DHV'd a lot, qualified her on skydiving, scuba diving, that she wants to go to california for school, and her English. She was going to buy a drink with her ticket but I stopped her and said I'd get her one if she gives me a kiss on the cheek. She complied immediately and I said that's a good girl. Got her the drink and she said thank you so much. Kept talking with her while the other guy was at the bar with his girl too. Tried to move so I could lock in on the bar and she felt a little awkward maybe because she had to turn to her friend who was 3 feet away and make sure she interacted first. Shortly after they had to go to the bathroom, I time bridged before they left for Monday a week later.

 

Sunday day game

Opened a couple of school girls because I wanted to know what they were eating, compliant but despite that I kind of bitched out/decided it wasn't worth the effort to figure out their ages.

Walked around and let an attractive set go. FUCK. Then as I continued through the crowded street I couldn't find a really good set farther from the station

Opened some girls speaking Chinese, surprised at hearing them speak I asked in Chinese if they were. Nani? Even more confused now, nani? I reply. One of them continues in Chinese saying something and the other says urusai. I go WOW, laugh and walk on, could have made a joke saying but why, or ruuuude. That 3 set was not worth pushing for in the first place though lol

 

 

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Monday

Forced Soupernoob to open a 2 set that was decent early in the day, should have done it myself though because I didn't open enough lol

Bitch opened a bunch of girls, but let one or two good ones I saw go. Why do I do this to myself

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KWed. Did some approaching in Akihabara with Soupernoob on the way to dinner. Plan was to approach for 30 minutes and goal was to try and bounce a set to ramen. Ended up waiting for bro so did approaches for approx 90 min

walking 2 set after crossing intersection. Your scarf is really big, nice! She gives a look, minor response. You could probably wrap your entire body in it. Do you? She turns around and says sorry, starts walking the other way with her friend 😂. Bad body language, slow delivery.

fast solo set. socks for my cat. no English but takes her headphones out. Redo the joke with Soup's help translating. Jodan, demo ananta kawaii. jk, but you're cute. Think I did logistics of just asked for line. she has to go, didn't push it BC language barrier would've been  rough

HB 7.5 plus, tall with long silver blue hair and excellent fashion waiting at crosswalk. Fuck. Had to open. Earphones. walk in front and point. earphones out. no English. rpq your shoes are really big opener. laughs. Shopping by yourself? No, work. Maid! yes. High five. light turns, sorry she has to work. I walk in front. Bad body language leaning forward. That's okay. Do you have line? No sorry. Ten seconds only! it'll be fast! Shouldve waited longer and tried to seed something fun quick. Let her go, but definitely should have kept pushing. was kicking myself for an hour for not trying to stack forward and staying in set.

Made Soup open some sets. Held my hands out to be handcuffed by the cop maid girls. Giggles.

Another set with earphones, bright blue hair. You spilled water on your hair. No English. tried for Japanese joke. Sorry wakaranai. she leaves.

Iois ..? from a girl working, she keeps turning back and smiling at me (or my crepe) walk past her to throw away the wrapper. hazukashi! I coverthe side of my face. laughs. what time do you get off? no English. line chat? sorry she can't. that's okay, more kino and leave.

 

One more girl in the cat girl cafe we see (and of course we have to check it out because this is my thing) is returning my kino. grabbing my hand and letting me touch her arms. we just go in to see if there are any really good girls. only 2 girls and 3 customers. she will wait for us to come back. How do you close these kinds of girls? They obviously could be showing interest because it's part of their job, and they probably aren't allowed to give out their info on the clock, but they're still girls and probably want to get closed sometimes right?

I realize that's lower probability and more work but I am curious what strategies you guys would use. I know rpq likes to see if he can get the gogo dancers sometimes

 

last set in the arcade. see a really good girl sitting at an arcade machine with hundreds of trading cards. she's really good though. How do you play this game? Ego taberanai. translator. is it like this game on my phone? no not that. laugh and kino. she doesn't know what to do and is a little uncomfortable with kino. I tell her my brother is hungry but she should give me her line and she can show me later. kino was mostly taps, high fives, and squeezing her upper arm. Smiled as I left, stayed a couple minutes nearby bit out of sight because Soup was trying a game. Really hope she replies. She would be a fun girl to try and learn Japanese with and game, plus she was really good lol

did well:

opened the really good sets when I saw them even if I felt like a bitch

Opened from a good position always

opened even though I wasn't dressed well or in a great state

 

will improve:

eye contact damnit!

logistics disco very

Japanese!

Body language, leaning back, always opening confidently and maintaining good body language

PROGRESS THE SARGE

 

realizations:

I can run quarter decent game and openers now even on autopillot

My openers from China need to be modified to work well in Japan 

There are a lot of really cute girls that don't speak English

I'm getting better at reading the situation and not embarrassing the girls

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On 2/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ditto said:

I reopened the set and the boyfriend made it clear they were together. Then he tried to get me to join him in the jumping, I signaled that I wouldn't, smiled, waved to them all and moved on. (I assume this was the right move, as letting some random guy lead me would be a DLV right?)

This is true in isolation, but you could consider that if you pace them, then you could lead the group later. Also, hanging out with a group like that might make it easier to open other nearby sets who see you as you could bring them into your group so while it might be DLV with that set, it could be social proof with other sets.

On 2/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ditto said:

Probably should have invited her out to a quieter area.

Yeah, this would have been worth trying.

On 2/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ditto said:

Qualified her on her great drawing, that since I have no artistic ability I need someone who does to balance me out. (I was going to say so my kids can be talented at everything, but I'm still not sure if that's a really bad frame)

You can add this on as a BT spike.

On 2/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ditto said:

BS palmreading fell through bc she actually knew how to palm read LOL.

It's supposed to be a BS palm read, so you could just keep going with it and make it over the top ridiculous. Probably when she told you that you were wrong and she knew about palm reading you just cut the thread at that point instead of doing something like:

Oh...then you know that this line means that you're going to have 15 kids with me or something else funny.

On 2/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ditto said:

Set went okay, target was pretty drunk and extremely compliant and wanted my attention. Turns out after 10 minutes or so, she had a boyfriend and the other girl might not have. How do you deal with that?

You'd already isolated her? 

2 options:

1) game as usual and forget about the boyfriend ("Where is he? At home? PERFECT! I love boyfriends that are at home!")

2) You could have then said that you're super sad and which of her friends does she think would like you or ask her if a particular friend would like you.

On 2/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ditto said:

Found out who she was there with by asking one of the guys,

Don't ask the guys, they often lie.

On 2/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ditto said:

Ran into a 2 set of girls hugging, held out my arms for a hug from both. I thought it was funny but then one left and the other (a 4 or 5 at best in china) grabbed onto me and basically tried to rape me in the club. I figured I'd let her go at it for a minute or two just for the experience, but then the thought occurred to me to just directly ask her to leave and go to her place

Yeah! The less you like her, the more compliance you should demand! Perfect!

On 2/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ditto said:

While opening a mixed 3 set, a girl behind me spilled her drink on the back of my shirt. I kept thinking I could use that as an opener since she was relatively cute, but I couldn't think of what to do.

Did you come up with anything?

On 2/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ditto said:

Met Limonaide and co. and we talked about his set and what to do for a bit and then the one who was intent on having my babies walked outside and I told her let's go together, I wanted some practice for the things I learned in the sex seminar even if I had to sacrifice a bit of my pride for it. The practice was pretty awful. LR coming soon

OH MAN! I can't wait to read this!

On 2/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ditto said:

I have no idea how to progress the sarge well in loud environments. Is the only goal in an extremely loud room to build enough attraction to bounce somewhere quieter? I assume you can't seed that bounce really if they can't understand your english, and all vocal communication is much slower and more deliberate.

This is one way to do it. Another way to think about it is that if you build attraction, you can go back into the set later when they're in a better position logistically, or to use them as social proof for other sets.

On 2/20/2019 at 3:33 PM, kanevast said:

The palm reading girl - if she knew how to palm read and you were stuck, flip it around and get her to palm read you/teach you how and then flip it back by asking her how she got into it, how it's impressive show knows how to do that etc etc (qualification) as most girls don't and are boring.

This is also a good way to handle it!

On 2/20/2019 at 3:58 PM, kanevast said:

Sounds like a great t shirt 'I went to China and all I got was raped by a 5'

🤣🤣🤣

On 2/21/2019 at 2:28 AM, Ditto said:

she mentions how her last boyfriend cheated and that's why she's at the club. I say that's not okay, you have to at least be honest. Relationships are only good if everyone is keeping each other happy and they care for each other. (Is there a better response to this?)

Generally, I would just say, "that sucks," and move on because in the long run I want to set a bunch of frames around what cheating means but there's not enough time to do it well on the day 1 unless you get a bounce.

On 2/21/2019 at 2:28 AM, Ditto said:

3rd girl leaves, she's the one who doesn't want to have anything to do with guys opening her, how do these girls reproduce lol. Okay but seriously how do I open girls like these?

Not all your sets will open. You generally just follow best practices. Clearly her friends think it's about her and not about you or they ALL would have left. So that implies that it wasn't your problem but that girl's.

On 2/21/2019 at 2:28 AM, Ditto said:

Compliment one girl's choker. The other ones dress or something. They are both okay attractive and I can't decide, and in my late night mind I just decide to give both attention. At first they seem to feel awkward when I "switch targets" but then after a minute or two they're both smiling a lot and really enjoying it. I know this is only attraction but I wonder if you can keep that up haha. I decide to get more practice and eject. I kiss the hands of the two girls still there and wave goodbyes.

Just qualify both of them. It will be confusing for them, but you could definitely make a group chat with the 3 of you, for example to try and make it so that your whole relationship with them includes both of them.

On 3/18/2019 at 9:29 AM, Ditto said:

I like your blonde hair, why did you decide to dye it? Her coworkers all do. Ask where she works etc. Too much PIE and not enough dhv'ing, too soon.

It's easy to make this mistake when girls are really responsive.

On 3/18/2019 at 9:29 AM, Ditto said:

It seems most of these opens where I kinda bitch out then come back go really poorly. Is this just some limiting belief that changes the way I approach when I do this? Or do the girls actually find it a bit weird

I also find that my sets run a lot better when the girl doesn't know that I've noticed her or if I open in some way (like a facial expression) soon after she notices that I notice her.

If there is a long lag between when she knows I noticed her and when I open it rarely seems to go well for me. My personal theory is that she creates some fantasy about what I'm like and then when I actually interact with her she's disappointed. I don't know if that's correct but the sooner I actually interact with her the more our interaction is framed by my purposeful behavior.

On 3/18/2019 at 10:14 AM, Ditto said:

My hands are cold, yeah I don't know why they are today. I'm probably dying, she should come with me since it's my last night on this earth.

THIS IS GOOD! I'm going to use this!

On 3/18/2019 at 10:14 AM, Ditto said:

I tell her she's good, just hard enough to be fun. I instinctively draw back a bit when she leans in like she might try to kiss me. Not sure if that was too obvious but her friend definitely noticed. I didn't want to trigger ASD already, plus I was kinda turned off by how drunk she was. Wc close and she kisses me on the cheek before they leave.

It's always tough when girls are being really sexually aggressive and you don't have logistics. One way to run, especially if her friends are there is to play the gentleman and say that she's drunk and you need to take care of her or something along those lines. Or you can tell the friends that you're really into her but she needs to go home because she's too drunk.

The point is to make yourself look good.

On 4/4/2019 at 2:12 AM, Ditto said:

There are a lot of really cute girls that don't speak English

This is very true in Japan especially and also in Korea. In fact, I'd say that in Japan the more attractive girls are far less likely to speak English. I would advise that you stick to gaming in Shinjuku, Shibuya and Roppongi to maximize your chances of opening girls who speak English at least decently.

Most of the girls in Akihabara are super Japanese so they have no education and don't expose themselves to western entertainment media either. 

Glad I finally caught up on this. It was great having you come out for the boot camp and looking forward to hearing more about your Japan adventures!

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Posted (edited)

Woops! Can't believe I forgot to reply to this! I'm glad you caught up too, all the advice has been helping me improve far beyond what I thought I could manage!

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:

This is true in isolation, but you could consider that if you pace them, then you could lead the group later. Also, hanging out with a group like that might make it easier to open other nearby sets who see you as you could bring them into your group so while it might be DLV with that set, it could be social proof with other sets.

This is excellent wisdom and yeah, like I learned tonight. The more people that look at you positively the better because other people do notice. You're definitely right that other sets don't really know the difference between the guy trying to DHV himself and me making friends with the group.

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 2/16/2019 at 5:33 PM, Ditto said:

Qualified her on her great drawing, that since I have no artistic ability I need someone who does to balance me out. (I was going to say so my kids can be talented at everything, but I'm still not sure if that's a really bad frame)

You can add this on as a BT spike.

Ahh okay. Yeah if I make sure to make it obvious it's a BT spike it's not too weird

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 2/16/2019 at 5:33 PM, Ditto said:

BS palmreading fell through bc she actually knew how to palm read LOL.

It's supposed to be a BS palm read, so you could just keep going with it and make it over the top ridiculous. Probably when she told you that you were wrong and she knew about palm reading you just cut the thread at that point instead of doing something like:

Oh...then you know that this line means that you're going to have 15 kids with me or something else funny.

HAHA! Okay good point. This is definitely something I can apply a lot when I think I'm stuck. I guess what do you do if you feel like you want a second to think of a good response?

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:

2 options:

1) game as usual and forget about the boyfriend ("Where is he? At home? PERFECT! I love boyfriends that are at home!")

2) You could have then said that you're super sad and which of her friends does she think would like you or ask her if a particular friend would like you.

Ahh okay. Number 2 is really good haha. If you don't ask you can't get what you want right

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 2/16/2019 at 5:33 PM, Ditto said:

Found out who she was there with by asking one of the guys,

Don't ask the guys, they often lie.

I've been putting this into practice and it's actually really funny because the guys will try to say that and I ask the girls and they go we just met.

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 2/16/2019 at 5:33 PM, Ditto said:

While opening a mixed 3 set, a girl behind me spilled her drink on the back of my shirt. I kept thinking I could use that as an opener since she was relatively cute, but I couldn't think of what to do.

Did you come up with anything?

Not that night. I wanted to say something like "You should lick it off!" But at the moment all I can think of is pretending to sniff it and saying it smells good, what is it lol

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 2/16/2019 at 5:33 PM, Ditto said:

even if I had to sacrifice a bit of my pride for it. The practice was pretty awful. LR coming soon

OH MAN! I can't wait to read this!

Please no the trauma!

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 2/16/2019 at 5:33 PM, Ditto said:

I have no idea how to progress the sarge well in loud environments. Is the only goal in an extremely loud room to build enough attraction to bounce somewhere quieter? I assume you can't seed that bounce really if they can't understand your english, and all vocal communication is much slower and more deliberate.

This is one way to do it. Another way to think about it is that if you build attraction, you can go back into the set later when they're in a better position logistically, or to use them as social proof for other sets.

Ah this all makes a lot of sense, especially now that I've been doing night game a bit more. Gotta get those sets on the way from the bathroom!

 

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 2/20/2019 at 9:28 AM, Ditto said:

3rd girl leaves, she's the one who doesn't want to have anything to do with guys opening her, how do these girls reproduce lol. Okay but seriously how do I open girls like these?

Not all your sets will open. You generally just follow best practices. Clearly her friends think it's about her and not about you or they ALL would have left. So that implies that it wasn't your problem but that girl's.

 

Haha I hadn't even realized that. Yeah I guess the girl might have had some problem with guys. But some girls seem to do this regardless of the guy that's opening them or how. Is the answer just more social proof and DHVs in front of them without opening? Because short of running into extremely handsome guys that don't want the hottest girls, they seem to be at the club to blow guys out lol

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:

Just qualify both of them. It will be confusing for them, but you could definitely make a group chat with the 3 of you, for example to try and make it so that your whole relationship with them includes both of them.

Woah, this sounds super hard but really exciting to try

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:

I also find that my sets run a lot better when the girl doesn't know that I've noticed her or if I open in some way (like a facial expression) soon after she notices that I notice her.

If there is a long lag between when she knows I noticed her and when I open it rarely seems to go well for me. My personal theory is that she creates some fantasy about what I'm like and then when I actually interact with her she's disappointed. I don't know if that's correct but the sooner I actually interact with her the more our interaction is framed by my purposeful behavior.

Yeah that seems like a very plausible theory. What kinds of facial expressions do you use? Do winks and smiles count? Or stuff like being really goofy? I've tried being silly and sticking my tongue out at girls but usually that goes terribly

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 3/17/2019 at 6:14 PM, Ditto said:

My hands are cold, yeah I don't know why they are today. I'm probably dying, she should come with me since it's my last night on this earth.

THIS IS GOOD! I'm going to use this!

HAHA! Thanks! I thought it was pretty funny when I said it too

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:

It's always tough when girls are being really sexually aggressive and you don't have logistics. One way to run, especially if her friends are there is to play the gentleman and say that she's drunk and you need to take care of her or something along those lines. Or you can tell the friends that you're really into her but she needs to go home because she's too drunk.

The point is to make yourself look good.

This actually really helped me recently, trying to remember to at least look like a gentleman. Because typically I would try to be a gentleman but with game I kind of redid my social interactions from a blank slate and had to relearn what I can and can't use from the past. It helped my close HB Rumba though. Otherwise I would have been like oh shit drunk friend, probably isolation is the right move.

On 4/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 4/3/2019 at 10:12 AM, Ditto said:

There are a lot of really cute girls that don't speak English

This is very true in Japan especially and also in Korea. In fact, I'd say that in Japan the more attractive girls are far less likely to speak English. I would advise that you stick to gaming in Shinjuku, Shibuya and Roppongi to maximize your chances of opening girls who speak English at least decently.

Most of the girls in Akihabara are super Japanese so they have no education and don't expose themselves to western entertainment media either. 

Glad I finally caught up on this. It was great having you come out for the boot camp and looking forward to hearing more about your Japan adventures!

Yeah I'm wishing I learned katakana and hiragana before I came here this time, since it takes a lot of time to learn and all the good japanese apps use them. Oh well learning from girls is pretty good too lol!

Yeah it's interesting too because I think the more I can hook in Japanese the more I realize that the types of girls I learned to game (because they speak English) have very similar backgrounds and tendencies to each other. Like you said at some point you'll learn to get the types of girls you pursue.

Edited by Ditto
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Posted (edited)

Went out to Camelot in Shibuya with Romeo and Ladysman at the recommendation of TokyoTJ. It was really fun!

I have been out with Prime some and should really add some of my approaches with him to my FRD. But for now this is fresh in my head. One thing about the club Espirit is I can't seem to get girls to go to the table that Prime's friends have. I can do my normal goofy openers and hook sets (still less than usual), but they won't bounce to the table and the ones I try to open with "we have a table, want to drink?" like they suggested, pretty much just say no lol. Maybe I need to make more eye contact, maybe it's the venue, maybe I just have to have that much better of a positive seeming presence.

 

Got to Camelot around exactly midnight. Found the guys on the middle floor which has hip hop music. Romeo gave me a rundown of how he likes to game and was super awesome the whole night offering advice and sharing some stories between sets.

Went down to the EDM floor, Romeo opened a warmup set. Ended it on a high note after about 2-3 minutes so we could reopen later if we wanted.

I open a 2 set at a table, at first no compliance, open the target across the obstacle while kinoing the obstacle. Did your earrings hurt to put in? No. Your friend's shoes are really big. Chuckles. Logistics discovery and another BT spike or two and they're hooked. Bring in Romeo. Decide I actually like the obstacle better, too bad she's the one who speaks some English lol. I try to let my girl translate some but I let the set slip a little. Still happy and going well when we bounce to open more.

--Reopened this set later, had okay kino compliance but I tried to do a silly bit about tandem skydiving where I demonstrate it and she stepped away and got super cold when I stepped behind her and tried to raise her arms up. I laughed and continued with something. Kept trying to kino too much and she was very wary of shutting it down and eventually as I thought I was letting her translate she didn't want me to kino her at all and kept stepping farther away from the standing table and their drinks. I lost the set mostly by being a boob and forgetting what to say on top of being too lazy to try and make it more fun after she started shutting everything down. Maybe I should have acted like she was being weird, but I don't know if I had the language capability to do that.

 

Romeo opens some sets that go pretty well, we get a bit of a circle of people dancing, too bad all the girls are trash lol. I try a couple of times to bring other girls in but no luck and not enough skill haha. Open a 2 set both wearing white with "white, white, twins!" disgusted looks. I laugh while kinoing the girl I'm not talking to, and try a couple more BT spikes but the music gets loud. I just stand there and dance a little and keep trying to do BT spikes. One finally grabs her friend and they have to leave to the back of the dance floor 😂. Even better is Romeo tried the twins opener on them later and we thought it was hilarious, he then told ladysman to do it and we kept waving to them when they passed by. They looked like they were half mad at us and half mad at themselves for refusing to talk to us LOL.

Open a lot of 2 sets on the dance floor. I probably could have been a bit louder and had better body language. I caught myself leaning forward a couple of times to talk in the girls' ears. Most of the good ones blow me out, a few of the better ones I make leave by refusing to stop talking at them haha. Though I think most of the time when one turns away, I talk to the friend about that friend and she starts realizing more that her friend wants out.

 

Romeo opened a 3 set and ran the 2 set. I ran pretty standard game on my girl who I wasn't super interested in but then she qualified really well. Too bad I couldn't time bridge because she's busy every day I'm not this week apparently. It might be how I went about the time bridge though. I just went for it and said do you work wednesday, what time do you finish. Then when she didn't really understand (I think I didn't use quite the right word) and I said we should get dinner together. Really this is just an objection that probably means I didn't do enough seeding and future projection. Line closed.

Opened a 3 set while Romeo and ladysman are dancing with a 2 set Romeo pulled over. Offered to trade glow sticks that were identical. She laughed and was pretty immediately hooked. Went over to her and asked if she was with her friends, a white couple that was really not into it it seemed. Gave the guy a handshake, BT spiked. Should have just brought them all over to the other guys but I didn't want to bring the couple for some reason. Danced with them a bit and saw the guys going back to the bar with the girl who was acting drunk. Mostly just danced silly and did some DHVs and PIE. She had no phone and couldn't search her line ID, so I had her give me her phone number. She called herself and it seemed to have worked. "time bridged" for breakfast with everyone, told her to text me around 4:30, and it was 3-330 am. Ejected to find the guys with the intention of bringing them back to all dance together. Kiss on the cheek and I go. Took 10 minutes of searching to find the guys because the girl lost her phone and wallet. Then I saw an 8.5 with the jaw length blonde hair and I had to open her. By the time I got back they were gone.

 

The girl with the blonde hair definitely worked there. I opened her with, she's 140cm! When she's clearly 170. The guy next to her says you're right! Nice! Should have asked anyway for an extra BT spike opportunity. I ran this set terribly but well in some ways. She spoke very little English and showed varying interest over the course of the 15 or so minute intial set. It started out good but as I lost momentum it got harder, especially because I had to engage the guy and sometimes they would talk, and at one point she went over to have a shot with the bartender. I took a lesson from Romeo and just acted like everything was cool even when she spent 2 or 3 minutes completely trying to ignore me. Tried to time bridge but no go, Line closed her and the other guy who was a DJ there. Smiled and said see you when I went to see my friends but the smiles were the kind that you smile when you feel bad about something at the same time.

--Reopened at the end of the night because the girl for breakfast hadn't been texting back and I couldn't locate her in the club (she did finally text back after I mentioned her name lol.) The DJ says woah it's the comeback kid! Or something to that effect and I laugh and high five them both. We talk for a little bit about him DJ'ing and her liking to run and dance with my 3 glowsticks. The DJ starts talking to her about something in japanese and she turns away from me at the bar. I chill there for a couple of minutes texting the other girls and then walk over to the weaker position away from the bar and ask if I can listen so I can learn Japanese faster. He says okay. Suddenly the girl is giving me a lot more interest and smiles while looking into my eyes for much longer periods of time. I really am not sure why this is. We talk about a few things and I kino her back and pat her on the head when appropriate, trying not to be too too bad in case she has face to maintain in her social circle. Try to bounce her to breakfast but she really wants to sleep and is allowed to stay downstairs while all the guests are being ushered out. I say bye to both of them and take off.

Line closed another blonde girl at the metro by asking where to go like I was lost. She spoke English really well but talked to me in Japanese anyway. When I asked her why she said she thought it was cute lol. I guess that's a good thing. I knew I'd just missed first train but she said to hurry so I left and went there like I was listening. My brain was fried and I was being retarded, should have stayed at her platform and talked for 5 or 10 minutes while her train came. Acted conflicted about asking then said I was hungry did she wanna get breakfast. She really wants to sleep but next time, Line closed.

 

All in all I think I learned a lot and worked up quite a sweat so it was a great night! Plus I got 3 good girls in the pipeline and one really hot super low probability girl! 

 

Things I did well:

-Tried to give everybody a positive experience and had fun with everyone nearby even if I didn't want to open them

-Made sure I really got blown out, or at least made the girls walk away

-Got better at obstacle game as the night went on

-Managed situations that seemed bad just by pretending they were fine!

 

Things I will improve:

-I will make sure to engage my girl so that my wing doesn't lose the set to my bad game

-I will get better at communicating and recognizing when my wing is happy with the set

-I will stick with sets that I like or at the very least realize when I've been gone too long to do something

-I will continue acting like 8's and 9's should be paying attention to me and kino them confidently like I would any other girl

 

Realizations:

-I totally forgot, but not letting anything bother you and having fun is an easy and really big DHV

-I really can hook 8's and 9's I just need the game to compete with the slew of guys trying to get at them, that and the knowledge of Japanese to communicate because they almost never speak English (and when they do I get blown out)

 

 

Edited by Ditto

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Edited by Ditto
Being retarded

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11 hours ago, Ditto said:

I guess what do you do if you feel like you want a second to think of a good response?

You usually can't get time if you're talking about night game. But usually, it doesn't matter, you can just move on to something else because night game moves so fast anyway.

If it's a slower situation, you can "shush" her and then look into her eyes deeply making her think that you're having deep thoughts while you frantically come up with what to do next. Also, on Day 2s, you can dip out to the bathroom for a quick huddle up and maybe some texts to get some support from the guys. I've done this plenty of times when things weren't going my way.

12 hours ago, Ditto said:
On 4/8/2019 at 7:58 PM, RedpoleQ said:
On 2/17/2019 at 10:33 AM, Ditto said:

While opening a mixed 3 set, a girl behind me spilled her drink on the back of my shirt. I kept thinking I could use that as an opener since she was relatively cute, but I couldn't think of what to do.

Did you come up with anything?

Not that night. I wanted to say something like "You should lick it off!" But at the moment all I can think of is pretending to sniff it and saying it smells good, what is it lol

That could work! I don't think I've ever had a girl spill a drink on me, so I never had to come up with something for this.

12 hours ago, Ditto said:

But some girls seem to do this regardless of the guy that's opening them or how. Is the answer just more social proof and DHVs in front of them without opening?

YES, exactly. Social proof is your best bet here. Even better if you open her WITH another girl. In this case, the other girl is called a "pawn" and basically you bring her into the set, and then ditch her (sacrificing the pawn) once the girl you really want is hooked.

12 hours ago, Ditto said:

What kinds of facial expressions do you use? Do winks and smiles count? Or stuff like being really goofy? I've tried being silly and sticking my tongue out at girls but usually that goes terribly

Yeah, and blowing kisses, air guns, shy faces. The kind of cute/fun stuff that Asians like.

10 hours ago, Ditto said:

One thing about the club Espirit is I can't seem to get girls to go to the table that Prime's friends have. I can do my normal goofy openers and hook sets (still less than usual), but they won't bounce to the table and the ones I try to open with "we have a table, want to drink?" like they suggested, pretty much just say no lol. Maybe I need to make more eye contact, maybe it's the venue, maybe I just have to have that much better of a positive seeming presence.

I suck with tables too, man. No idea why. Maybe just lack of experience with them.

11 hours ago, Ditto said:

Realizations:

-I totally forgot, but not letting anything bother you and having fun is an easy and really big DHV

-I really can hook 8's and 9's I just need the game to compete with the slew of guys trying to get at them, that and the knowledge of Japanese to communicate because they almost never speak English (and when they do I get blown out)

Great realizations. Being non-reactive is a major marker of high value. And yeah...the more you go for those girls, the better you'll get at gaming them as you hone your skills.

Good work and keep at it!

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6 hours ago, RedpoleQ said:
18 hours ago, Ditto said:

I guess what do you do if you feel like you want a second to think of a good response?

You usually can't get time if you're talking about night game. But usually, it doesn't matter, you can just move on to something else because night game moves so fast anyway.

If it's a slower situation, you can "shush" her and then look into her eyes deeply making her think that you're having deep thoughts while you frantically come up with what to do next. Also, on Day 2s, you can dip out to the bathroom for a quick huddle up and maybe some texts to get some support from the guys. I've done this plenty of times when things weren't going my way.

I've read this three times and I still can't control my laughter when I read the part about shushing her and staring deeply into her eyes! Okay these are great tips! And yeah I've thought about doing that before since you guys have mentioned it. How long of a bathroom break can you usually get away with if you need it?

6 hours ago, RedpoleQ said:

That could work! I don't think I've ever had a girl spill a drink on me, so I never had to come up with something for this.

Yeah you're a bit more aware of your surroundings in the club than I am lol. All I see is girls with silver hair that I need to open

6 hours ago, RedpoleQ said:

YES, exactly. Social proof is your best bet here. Even better if you open her WITH another girl. In this case, the other girl is called a "pawn" and basically you bring her into the set, and then ditch her (sacrificing the pawn) once the girl you really want is hooked.

LOL! That is such perfect terminology! So you just hook one girl and then walk her around and open another one with your arm around the pawn? When you ditch the pawn how do you do it without seeming like you're being a dick?

6 hours ago, RedpoleQ said:

Yeah, and blowing kisses, air guns, shy faces. The kind of cute/fun stuff that Asians like.

Shit, blowing kisses and air guns are going to be all over Shibuya this week! This sounds way too fun 😂

6 hours ago, RedpoleQ said:

I suck with tables too, man. No idea why. Maybe just lack of experience with them.

Yeah fair haha. Maybe I should just spend a night watching the guys who seem good at it

6 hours ago, RedpoleQ said:

Great realizations. Being non-reactive is a major marker of high value. And yeah...the more you go for those girls, the better you'll get at gaming them as you hone your skills.

Good work and keep at it!

Yeah! A lot of these realizations were from Romeo's points throughout the night! I can't wait to get better at gaming these girls!

Thanks! And thanks for all the help! I look forward to hanging out again in Tokyo next week!

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Posted (edited)

Sunday 21 Apr

 

Went out to do some day game in the dark with Romeo. Shibuya.

Romeo opened a really tough walking set with headphones, then a sitting two set that we passed by soon after going to a less crowded spot. I manage not to get noticed or be in line of sight when he opens this time (as I did too many times), and he brings me in after a bit. Who's the bad girl, I go over to mine who has goth accessories all over and a neck piercing and chuckle to myself. I start off with an Ohayo and only give my girl a handshake. I'm starting off a bit slow and can't think of things to say so I jump to qualification pretty quickly since it seems she's already pretty keen. Do you like skydiving. Her eyes light up and she says yeah I wanna try it! Woah high five! Scuba diving? She's actually done it! (I think at least, she speaks about as much English as I do Japanese which at this point is almost none.) Wow! I love you! I grab her and hug her tight, from the side because we're all sitting on a small stone barrier. She seems to respond well to this, and I actually do like her a lot more because she qualified well on that and a few other things even though she wasn't super good looking. For a little bit the two girls start talking to each other about our BT spikes or occasionally translating help. Romeo tells his girl to use a translator and show him and I try to get my girls attention by thinking of more interesting things to ask her. One or two times though I helped translate and felt kinda dumb. After about 10 minutes in set Romeo asks if I want to stay and maybe bounce and I say sure that would be great practice. He asks if they want to drink. Meeting guy friends soon. That's fine it should be quick. As he's doing this I try to seed sushi in shibuya because I forgot I needed to be seeding more. Everyone thinks I mean we should go to sushi instead, bad timing lol! That's okay we decide to bounce them to sushi and I double check with Romeo that he's cool with that. 

We walk over to sushi and my end of the weekend state starts getting to me. I forget to run enough game and am in general thinking way too slowly. We talk about a few things but luckily I was smart enough to forcefully pick the mood back up right before we left. Lots of smiles and time bridge before we parted ways and they went to go see their friends. Or so they said. I should have time bridged sooner and kept trying to game more.

 

Opened a lot of walking sets and all the good ones with colored hair that I saw. Usually no English and some really tried to blow me out pretty hard. Romeo mentions that I should try to stop them since there were a lot of Japanese guys opening too, and most of them were walking with them or trying to hand out flyers as the girls passed. My successful hook rate increased after this, and if I didn't hook I'd at least get a decent amount more compliance sometimes. There were 2 sets that were really smiley but left though.

1. 2 set of what looked like super young girls when they turned around which threw me off. I was unsure but kept trying to open anyway. They want through a crowd of people but I stopped them for a half second. You! They continue trying to walk. Wait, your friend *kino obstacle, your friend's shoes are really big. They stop walking and are smiling a lot and listening. That means you. Point to make it extra obvious. You are only this tall. They laugh and I say, so you're 15. Wasn't looking into the obstacle's eyes enough. They laugh, no! And turn and walk. I'm confused on so many levels that I don't pursue them. Romeo says it was going well I should go reopen. I agree but we lost them in the crowd and shops.

2. Romeo is making a head call and a 2 set of taller blonde haired girls walks by. I hesitate a second and they're already perpendicular to me so I start walking to overtake them, 2 or 3 guys try to hand out flyers so I join in trying to hand them an imaginary piece of paper. They laugh and smile but we're all still walking. Stop, I tell them. They stop to my surprise. Your friend's shoes are really big! Decent kino I think, wasn't quite hard enough. They laugh and say yeah she's actually short. Good English!? They turn and keep trying to go. I say wait you should meet my friend! They stop and turn around again, waiting and I say he's tall and good looking. They have to meet some friends they say, they're late. I say wait one more time but don't pursue. I really REALLY should have with this set, at least line closed if not tried to see if I could get them to ignore their appointment entirely for the sake of science.

 

1 more set that is walking fast with silver hair and the standard Japanese tan overcoat. Hey!! Oh I thought you were my friend because of your tan jacket! No English! Hand up in front of her face. I mean you have the jacket, I lift up part of her jacket for emphasis. She pushes my hand away. I try to switch openers but she continues to walk faster and says something in Japanese haha.

Romeo opens a 2 set of young girls because they have some gacha balls with something he thinks is funny. They hook pretty well. The obstacle hands us each a gacha ball to help open them. The obstacle is very compliant and we maneuver into a standard isolating configuration. They're friends celebrating my girl's birthday.  I actually know enough Japanese now to keep the obstacle occupied and ended up kinoing a lot to test compliance, which there was a lot. Romeo mentions we should go meet RPQ and I say okay one second and line close my girl which Romeo later mentioned he thought was super funny because he felt awkward when he learned they were young and had gotten physically a lot stiffer when they mentioned it 😂. Romeo's girl spoke really good English so could have a lot of fun with the set. Overall probably 10-15 minutes

Try to open a set walking really fast. Some opener that was silly. Ignore. Hand. Meeting friend. Otoko. Is she his girlfriend? Yes. Okay.

 

Realizations:

-As Romeo mentioned to me, realizing what the girl is typically dealing with, whether that be guys' openers or how comfortable she feels with kino or energy levels (KV mentioned this too) can be really helpful in streamlining the learning process.

Edited by Ditto
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FR with Tokyotj


Was super out of state but that made it interesting because sets took more skill and determination to hook sometimes. It wasn't as black and white as usual where sets would hook fast or not at all. Some would take a bit of time


Street 2 set. BT spike a lot and manage to stop them very close to last train. Try to mention that it may be soon but they should give me line. A J dude walks over and tries to wing for me. Fine by me, I make it obvious which girl I'm after but he talks to me more than them. I engage a little but try to keep kinoing my target and engaging her. They start to back away and then eventually leave when he keeps talking.

How do you deal with a guy who wants in on your set but can't focus on isolating the obstacle?


Harlem.
2 set in line. How tall are you? Friend says 171. Darn 172 would have been perfect. Friend acts all disgusted (she's short maybe that's why?) 2 guys walk up and pass the girls (I didn't realize at the time they were probably together and thought it was strange).

Getting blown out or ignored a lot. Especially when I don't open fast enough. One 2 set we walk by and instead of trying to think of an opener I just smile and high five her. Pass by 2 more times while doing a walkthrough then come back and bring TokyoTJ in. Set lasts about 30-40 minutes. Didn't do enough ssp because I was smiling too much in the beginning and went to sit next to her and kino her back instead of facing her. Her English was okay, I kept pausing between things though because it was loud and I was running through my stack way too quickly. I tried to stretch out the qualification more with some details but they generally didn't go well because of language and noise. 
They say they have to go home and I line close even though I couldn't time bridge (she said she was leaving tomorrow, but TokyoTJ said the other girl mentioned my target had a boyfriend) In reality they may not be leaving but I probably will just wait till I'm back in Japan to try and ping her for a meet.

5 set that looks like a 2 set near the bar. Open 2 by kinoing one and talking to the other and switching based on who is giving me their attention. Finally looks like I hooked both and then I ask who they're there with. 5 girls. Obstacle goes over to another friend when I'm turned around being told who's who. High five and eject because I start losing the set all over the place. In this kind of situation is it best to just try line closing if the target is good?

A good 2 set walks by down the stairs while I'm talking to TokyoTJ and writing notes. When they come back up I open and get some interest, but their friends see them and then grab them all, the girls walk out to the dancefloor together and TokyoTJ tells me to go after them. I do and am getting interest from one girl but it all kind of falls off as they start dancing and doing their own thing. The girls take turns trying to close me out of the circle after a bit and I just stay there like I don't care, maybe it'd be better to pretend like they're dancing with me when they try that. I decide it's time to leave before I make it really awkward because I don't know how to dance to hip hop. I come back to this set at the end of the night and just stand there smiling while they dance crazy and try to ask my target for her line. She says no twice so I take off.

How do you hook sets that are dancing crazy? Wait for them to head to the bathroom? Maybe just BT spiking them in passing a lot, though sometimes these sets just leave early too.

TokyoTJ ejects from a 2 set where the target was really good and I tell him to go back and Line close her. He doesn't want to and tells me to. I just lean on their standing table and act like I understand whatever the obstacles saying and nod. They laugh. I say I like her shirt and the stripes. Does she want to trade? I start unbuttoning my shirt like KV mentioned one time and they thought it was hilarious. At the second to last button the target takes my hand and says something and I wasn't sure if it was continue or that I should button my shirt back up. I button it back up after a bit of questioning and continue BT spiking and doing a bit of qualification. Scuba diving is cool, let's go to California tonight and do it! She says something like woah that's serious (I forget). Okay tomorrow then. I try to timebridge but they say they have work all week including Saturday. I say I'll get her line and we'll talk then. Friend takes her to the bathroom and I say wait give me your line first. I move to another table so I'm not waiting for them and they come out and see me and turn to go up to a bar. I try to stop them and get her line but they keep going and I just follow them up the stairs and to their seats and say give me your line (I thought for sure they were trying to blow me out now) but my girl says okay and adds me. I make a little more small talk and say I'll message her and leave before I run out of Japanese and make the set awkward. I kinoed the obstacle and tried to keep her interested but failed to do the thing where I ask about the target through her, partly because her English was worse and partly because I was getting so many IOI's from the target I acted like a retard

2 set hooks and I say I'll be back but I take too long and they leave

3 set just gets there at 3am and I open with my "Hey it's you!" opener for girls with tan coats. It goes well and they hook but they're a bit older and I'm out of state and don't know where to go. Before I lose the set I say ganbare and high five or shake their hands and eject so that I can reopen later.


I ejected from a lot of sets before trying to bring TokyoTJ in and I think though from a "social" club game standpoint it was better to have everyone on good terms, more people actually showed up and it wasn't as dangerous to have unfriendly sets. I really missed out on getting to work on bringing TokyoTJ in and building our synergy too, though TokyoTJ is a great wing regardless.

realizations:
-Being out of state isn't the end of the world. It does make it significantly harder to hook sets though. 
-Having a neutral face is much better than trying to not frown at how badly you're doing sometimes
-I expect a lot more from my sets now, and that's awesome!
-Running with a high keenness set later in the night seems to have a higher chance of yielding any results as at the end of the night all the good sets are dancing, gone, or too sleepy to enjoy their interactions
 

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On 4/22/2019 at 3:19 AM, Ditto said:

How long of a bathroom break can you usually get away with if you need it?

5-10min. I mean, you can start texting on the way to the bathroom and then when you get back to the table you can check your messages more frequently because you'll be expecting some useful responses.

On 4/22/2019 at 3:19 AM, Ditto said:
On 4/21/2019 at 8:38 PM, RedpoleQ said:

Social proof is your best bet here. Even better if you open her WITH another girl. In this case, the other girl is called a "pawn" and basically you bring her into the set, and then ditch her (sacrificing the pawn) once the girl you really want is hooked.

LOL! That is such perfect terminology! So you just hook one girl and then walk her around and open another one with your arm around the pawn? When you ditch the pawn how do you do it without seeming like you're being a dick?

The way it works is that with the pawn, you never really go beyond attraction so when you open the new girl you can ask her something about the girl you're with, like:

Does it look like this girl had surgery on her eyes?

How old do you think this girl is?

This girl (the pawn) likes your x! (In this case you can talk about the girl before you open her)

--

It's actually not necessary that you open like that since it's a club environment, it's quite normal for people to talk to strangers.

On 4/30/2019 at 7:05 PM, Ditto said:

How do you deal with a guy who wants in on your set but can't focus on isolating the obstacle?

Generally this will be tough if you opened the set and there is a language barrier, but in general, the best way to do it is to include his girl in the conversation. So, he asks you where are you from, you answer and then ask the obstacle. She says where she's from, then you ask the guy if he's ever been there, then if he has, have him talk about the place and if he hasn't have the girl talk about the place.

On 4/30/2019 at 7:05 PM, Ditto said:

5 set that looks like a 2 set near the bar. Open 2 by kinoing one and talking to the other and switching based on who is giving me their attention. Finally looks like I hooked both and then I ask who they're there with. 5 girls. Obstacle goes over to another friend when I'm turned around being told who's who. High five and eject because I start losing the set all over the place. In this kind of situation is it best to just try line closing if the target is good?

Or you can eject and come back to the set later at the risk of not being able to find it.

On 4/30/2019 at 7:05 PM, Ditto said:

A good 2 set walks by down the stairs while I'm talking to TokyoTJ and writing notes. When they come back up I open and get some interest, but their friends see them and then grab them all, the girls walk out to the dancefloor together and TokyoTJ tells me to go after them. I do and am getting interest from one girl but it all kind of falls off as they start dancing and doing their own thing. The girls take turns trying to close me out of the circle after a bit and I just stay there like I don't care

You have some options here too. One of the things that's different about night game from day game is that in night game, you can re-open the set later because typically they'll be there for several hours. It can be a lot better to run the set similarly to if you go to meet a girl and she is with friends. 

You get in there, make yourself look good, but knowing that you likely can't get enough isolation to progress the sarge at that time, you eject and come back later.

On 4/30/2019 at 7:05 PM, Ditto said:

How do you hook sets that are dancing crazy? Wait for them to head to the bathroom? Maybe just BT spiking them in passing a lot, though sometimes these sets just leave early too.

It's easier if you open the set that's already dancing. In this particular case they were on the way to the dance floor and you were trying to interrupt that momentum. But if they're already dancing, and have been the next thing they're going to do is take a break anyway so you're going more along with their pattern.

On 4/30/2019 at 7:05 PM, Ditto said:

TokyoTJ ejects from a 2 set where the target was really good and I tell him to go back and Line close her. He doesn't want to and tells me to.

What's this about?

  • Thanks 1

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On 5/13/2019 at 3:14 AM, RedpoleQ said:

5-10min. I mean, you can start texting on the way to the bathroom and then when you get back to the table you can check your messages more frequently because you'll be expecting some useful responses.

Perfect plan

On 5/13/2019 at 3:14 AM, RedpoleQ said:

The way it works is that with the pawn, you never really go beyond attraction so when you open the new girl you can ask her something about the girl you're with, like:

Does it look like this girl had surgery on her eyes?

How old do you think this girl is?

This girl (the pawn) likes your x! (In this case you can talk about the girl before you open her)

Ahhh that's good! Do you usually have to do a few minutes of attraction before you can get a girl to follow you over to talk to other people? I guess acting like you do it all the time is probably key

On 5/13/2019 at 3:14 AM, RedpoleQ said:

It's actually not necessary that you open like that since it's a club environment, it's quite normal for people to talk to strangers.

Open like what? With your arm around the pawn?

On 5/13/2019 at 3:14 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 4/30/2019 at 3:05 AM, Ditto said:

How do you deal with a guy who wants in on your set but can't focus on isolating the obstacle?

Generally this will be tough if you opened the set and there is a language barrier, but in general, the best way to do it is to include his girl in the conversation. So, he asks you where are you from, you answer and then ask the obstacle. She says where she's from, then you ask the guy if he's ever been there, then if he has, have him talk about the place and if he hasn't have the girl talk about the place

Ahhh okay that's good. I can see that set going so much differently when I imagine doing that! :classic_biggrin:

On 5/13/2019 at 3:14 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 4/30/2019 at 3:05 AM, Ditto said:

... obstacle goes over to another friend when I'm turned around being told who's who. High five and eject because I start losing the set all over the place. In this kind of situation is it best to just try line closing if the target is good?

Or you can eject and come back to the set later at the risk of not being able to find it.

Ah these are my favorite kinds of choices, when all your options are less than great haha! That's when you really get to play with your decision making skills

On 5/13/2019 at 3:14 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 4/30/2019 at 3:05 AM, Ditto said:

A good 2 set walks by down the stairs while I'm talking to TokyoTJ and writing notes. When they come back up I open and get some interest, but their friends see them and then grab them all, the girls walk out to the dancefloor together and TokyoTJ tells me to go after them. I do and am getting interest from one girl but it all kind of falls off as they start dancing and doing their own thing. The girls take turns trying to close me out of the circle after a bit and I just stay there like I don't care

You have some options here too. One of the things that's different about night game from day game is that in night game, you can re-open the set later because typically they'll be there for several hours. It can be a lot better to run the set similarly to if you go to meet a girl and she is with friends. 

You get in there, make yourself look good, but knowing that you likely can't get enough isolation to progress the sarge at that time, you eject and come back later.

Okay, that's a good way to think of it since I have the meet with friends thing pretty clear in my mind I think. Only problem is with this set I didn't even get to the make myself look good phase HA! I was just refusing to get blown out easily

On 5/13/2019 at 3:14 AM, RedpoleQ said:

It's easier if you open the set that's already dancing. In this particular case they were on the way to the dance floor and you were trying to interrupt that momentum. But if they're already dancing, and have been the next thing they're going to do is take a break anyway so you're going more along with their pattern.

Oh shit. That makes sense. I need to start asking myself what girls are doing and what they're going to do next, and think of what the lowest pressure time to open is. I had been regularly opening girls in high pressure situations before I went to Soupernoob's boot camp lol

On 5/13/2019 at 3:14 AM, RedpoleQ said:
On 4/30/2019 at 3:05 AM, Ditto said:

TokyoTJ ejects from a 2 set where the target was really good and I tell him to go back and Line close her. He doesn't want to and tells me to.

What's this about?

Her friend appeared and I said I'd wing but he didn't think the set was going anywhere. He just needed some time to get back into it and get over his AA again

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On 5/17/2019 at 4:33 PM, Ditto said:
On 5/13/2019 at 7:14 PM, RedpoleQ said:

The way it works is that with the pawn, you never really go beyond attraction so when you open the new girl you can ask her something about the girl you're with, like:

Does it look like this girl had surgery on her eyes?

How old do you think this girl is?

This girl (the pawn) likes your x! (In this case you can talk about the girl before you open her)

Ahhh that's good! Do you usually have to do a few minutes of attraction before you can get a girl to follow you over to talk to other people? I guess acting like you do it all the time is probably key

It depends how far you have to move the pawn.

On 5/17/2019 at 4:33 PM, Ditto said:
On 5/13/2019 at 7:14 PM, RedpoleQ said:

It's actually not necessary that you open like that since it's a club environment, it's quite normal for people to talk to strangers.

Open like what? With your arm around the pawn?

Like the examples I gave. You can open with more "normal" things too because you have social proof.

On 5/17/2019 at 4:33 PM, Ditto said:
On 5/13/2019 at 7:14 PM, RedpoleQ said:

Or you can eject and come back to the set later at the risk of not being able to find it.

Ah these are my favorite kinds of choices, when all your options are less than great haha! That's when you really get to play with your decision making skills

😂

On 5/17/2019 at 4:33 PM, Ditto said:
On 5/13/2019 at 7:14 PM, RedpoleQ said:
On 4/30/2019 at 7:05 PM, Ditto said:

TokyoTJ ejects from a 2 set where the target was really good and I tell him to go back and Line close her. He doesn't want to and tells me to.

What's this about?

Her friend appeared and I said I'd wing but he didn't think the set was going anywhere. He just needed some time to get back into it and get over his AA again

Ahhhh, got it.

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On 5/24/2019 at 12:16 PM, RedpoleQ said:
On 5/17/2019 at 12:33 AM, Ditto said:

Ahhh that's good! Do you usually have to do a few minutes of attraction before you can get a girl to follow you over to talk to other people? I guess acting like you do it all the time is probably key

It depends how far you have to move the pawn.

That makes perfect sense

On 5/24/2019 at 12:16 PM, RedpoleQ said:
On 5/17/2019 at 12:33 AM, Ditto said:

Open like what? With your arm around the pawn?

Like the examples I gave. You can open with more "normal" things too because you have social proof.

I must have been half asleep when I wrote that, your examples are good thank you haha. I think what I should do is try it so I can get a better mental image

On 5/24/2019 at 12:16 PM, RedpoleQ said:
On 5/17/2019 at 12:33 AM, Ditto said:

Ah these are my favorite kinds of choices, when all your options are less than great haha! That's when you really get to play with your decision making skills

😂

😁

Thanks for the responses as always! The forums and your help have made a huge difference in my level of game!

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