FR: Daejeon, Seoul March Bootcamp, and Sunday night...

[mission]

FR: Seoul Bootcamp, March 2012

I was pumped leading up the weekend, probably as much as when I originally flew to Japan/Korean. Doing something that was potentially life changing, that hardly anyone else will do ever, but also having the mysterious edge of doing something out of the social norm... like hanging out in the street to practice meeting girls.

Lately while thinking about qualification, and coming to terms with the social pressures of studying and working in Korea, I've been re-evaluating (or at least re-confirming) my goals in life, and what kind of girl I would like to meet.
I am still somewhat torn between single mindedly pursueing the opportunities for my work  vs.  studying game to improve my interactions with women.  Ultimately, I would be disappointed if I left Korea without having found a cute girlfriend, and honestly I would likely retreat to my "shell" if I didn't meet a cute girl during the coming 3-month Summer break (I will have to work during the day).

So I need to figure out how to balance two things that could each single-handly consume my entire life...

Daejeon

When I came to Daejeon I had some initial success, one might say not directly related to 'game', however all my successes with girls that don't involve an arranged marriage service are related to things that I've learnt.  
During the first couple of weeks there was lots of free time, so there were many trips and partying. One night I managed to isolate a black girl and another mixed-race girl from dinner with a larger group. After lots of talking, eating and drinking I finally isolated the small mix-raced girl. She was one of those mixed-race girls where the mixing pot hadn't produced a more favourable result on account of the mixing, but she was one of the most genuinely happy and fun girls I have met, so I did enjoy hanging out with her. She was quite drunk, and after smashing through assorted LMR I full-closed her. She told me she wasn't a virgin, but she was tight like an un-bloomed flower, and I would definately have enjoyed seconds of that.
However, I hadn't qualified her, and I guess she knew that because she was way under my league and because she had a lot of 'proper' asian friends, that we would remain a secret, so she tries to avoid talking with me much now. She's really busy too, and tells me I should chase other girls   ;-)

And secondly, I got an immediate hit off a language exchange website. This girl has a large frame compared to average, but she dressed nice and I thought it didn't hurt to try. I spent 10 hours with her the following night, tried to get into her house, kissed her outside, shut her out by leaving so she thought she'd lost me, came back, talked and closed her.
We saw each other another 5 times, but she has loooow self esteem, and after learning about qualification that seemed to be what I was doing all the time.  I qualified her when I arrived, when I left, during the week... but she was always a bit unhappy and there were lots of issues. I got her to be a bit more kind, and got her to say some dirty things in bed, but all up I think she was probably more experienced with foreign guys than she let on, and was attempting to manipulate me to get whatever it was she wanted. She was good to get some new practice with the games girls play...   about them feeling slutty, or going shopping with them for shit they don't need...  but all up she was too much effort for a lay, and not the girl I wanted. She called me a few times, and I was genuinely busy, but I was surprised she didn't harass me more. I guess she always knew she didn't have me 100%, and so she didn't open up to me fully.

Since then I had a few big weekends of approaching girls in clubs and msg'ing girls on the internet. I even went to meet girls in Ulsan and Seoul, but now I realise it's too much of a waste of time for girls that don't go anywhere. So I need to get into some day game here in Daejeon, however, coming to Seoul is good for practice with a large number of cute girls.

Bootcamp

And so I came to the Bootcamp wondering if this would be my last big chance to practice meeting girls before a busy last-2-months of Semester, and thinking that any girls I met would not be worth my time to come back to Seoul for a D2...  (you were wondering when I would get to the Bootcamp!  :-D

When I arrived at the meeting point, I said hello to the group, a large bunch of Mystery-look-alikes with black clothes and bleached hair, before realising that none of them had an afro. I found Redpole holding fort down the back, with PM, and fellow recruits Goodfella and SlimJim (aka Mr Fantastic). After some discussion about pickup, scary transforming cameras, and Mission's desire to meet a homely girl who will stay at home for him to come bang her, we headed off into Hongdae.

We hung around outside NB2 approaching some sets. I don't have much approach anxiety in a foreign country or with foreign people, because the entire act is something new. I will have more work to do overcoming AA with hot white girls, who can be a lot ruder. So this night I never needed much encouragement to actually approach anyone.
However, I do get a bit overwelmed and go on auto-pilot during the interaction itself, so all weekend I had to keep reminding myself of what we needed to do.
I tried to stick to the system of *tap tap*, opener, light kino, BT, BT, friend count, wingtime, qualify... but often I would forget what I should be doing.
I was quite surprised to start with kino right from the beginning, and also how quickly we started to qualify.  I assumed the weekend's plan would have us cracking BT's for 15 minutes, making small talk for a while, then starting to qualify her...

Memorable sets from the pavement are:  
* a tipsy girl, where her friends walked away, and I was getting bored with thinking of things to say, so I ejected. She re-joined her friends, so I tried to wing for Mr Fantastic, but the 3 of them were sitting down on chairs which was difficult. I tried to pull the "hey stand up for a sec", so I could steal her chair, but when I did they all just left  :-)
* I went to grab a drink, a 2-set looked at me, so of course I approached. Got them hooked and we had a good chat. At one point a 3rd friend appeared (damn she was more attractice), I think she noticed that look on my face and after surveying the situation she left. I think I numbered-closed one, but I probably didnt save it properly.
* Opened a 2-set while one of them was on the phone. Can't remember much else.

Inside NB2 the dancing area was useless. However we hung around the entrance corridor for a long time, where lots of girls were standing or sitting.  This was a new concept to me, opening girls in a waiting area of a club. A gold mine I think. The only memorable one there was where I was winging for Goodfella and kept plowing to keep her occupied, and was getting all the usual resistance, but I find Korean girls funny when they do it. Goodfella said later he thought I was gonna get "glassed", which is a common response from Australia and Irish girls who don't have such a nice upbringing.
I tried to opened a 2-set of caucasian girls who were dancing on the staircase inside. First verbally, but the 200dB of noise won that contest. Then by dirty dancing next to them. No dice.

I really want to learn about non-verbal game...  pulling a girl from the dance floor, or seducing her without saying a word. At a music festival, I once saw a guy start dancing near a girl on the quiet dance floor, they were both oozing sexual vibes, and after some sort of 20 minute non-verbal interplay, she followed him off the dance floor!

Next we went to club Harlem. Redpole told me to approach this girl who was sitting down, but opening a girl with poor english, sitting below you in a dark club is definately one of the hardest scenarios.
We stood around for a bit, then I spotted 2 fair maidens, over by yonder drink bar, and told Goodfella to follow me. They were both sitting facing the bar...  *tap tap* "Hi, what time does this bar close" and they were immediately receptive. This was a Korean girl and a visiting shanghai girl or something. I called GFella to occupy the K-girl and chatted to MsShanghai. I didn't know how to position myself between them, and eventually they had enough. I tried to number close her, but because she didn't have a local number, I got the friend's instead.

Then I saw some tall-n-drunk K-girl on the opposite side of the bar. Opened her but she was very keen on dancing. Redpole taught me some good lessons about body position, crowding a girl by being too close, and not leaning in.
I probably should have hooked-in at the bar, while kino-ing her, but I kept feeling like I never really had her attention, and had to keep leaning in to talk to her.
Actually, I forgot about 'hooking in' and didn't really practice it that weekend.
I oscillated between trying to yell at her and some dirty dancing, but eventually she got bored or whatever. It was good to see how Redpole acted when he BT'd her with "which country u from".

Actually Redpole, it would have been good to watch you approach and interact with more girls. I got a lot out of the few times that I saw you.

Approached some more sets there, including a 4-set with the other guys, and some other random 2-sets. Then I think we left to de-brief. I was surprised how quickly 5am came on each night.
Also, it was a fun new experience to treat a nightclub like a house party, and try to meet lots of people. Normally when I go to nightclubs, I focus on the music and dancing, and don't interact with anyone new.

The following day at COEX mall, I realised that these massive mall complexes would be a goldmine for meeting girls. In Australia, we only got the big malls in the last 10 years, and they were usually far away, so I wasn't one of the kids that hung out in shopping malls. But there is a large number of people and sub-groups that do hangout in malls and arcades (closed off roads in the center of the city), and here in Daejeon there are 3 department stores and 1 underground mall, so I think there's good potential there.

Spent the afternoon approaching various sets, while they were walking or sitting. Walking sets were the hardest, and I would generally try to intercept them. However Mr Fantastic's "Hi I just happened to be walking beside you approach" seemed to do well. Oddly, maybe this is actually less confronting than *boom* some foreigner stops you to ask about the bookshop.  I kept waiting for the answer, and forgetting to launch into some BT spikes.

Memorable sets:
* approaching a sitting 2-set and then realising the girl I was going to introduce Mr Fantastic was the underage younger sister.
* situationable openers are good! "Hey when does the show start?" as this 2-set sat near the stage.
* a well-dressed women coming out of the toilet corridor, who turned out to be an electronics engineer at Samsung. She tried the BF thing, but her english was good enough to understand that I knew she was trying to get me to leave. We chatted for a while, but I couldn't number-close her  :-(
* opening a single set, sitting in the food court eating dinner, while a Korean man was chuckling behind me. She turned out to be handbag designer. Couldn't n-close her though.

I got a lot of women asking "Why are you talking to me?". Redpole says he just ignores it.
I'm not sure if it's surprise at our continued conversation, or low self esteem, or maybe my conversation seems fake, or out of Korean-context.

During the evenings intermission, I meet up with HBchubbycheeks I met on a language exchange website. She's cute, but lives too far away, and is a virgin. The following day I briefly sexualised the conversation and she said she would only fbeforemarriage if she was in love. I'm not going to see her again.

That night we went to club Ellui. On the way I saw another nearby club, the name I can't remember (??) with loads of HB's and sportcars out the front.  I find it interesting that the hottest clubs here will allow anyone to enter. I've never been to the "hottest clubs" in Australia, but I know the best clubs reject single or groups of guys, and the hottest clubs have some sort of special social code to gain entry. As a good example, some Australian comedians called up a nightclub and told the owner to make a table reservation for X famous music band who wanted to come to that nightclub. This group always wear masks while they're performing on stage, so these guys rolled up the club in a limousine, wearing outfits and their masks, and were quickly wisked into the club. They spent the night entertaining HBs who came over to their table to chat.  I guess that's entourage or status game at its finest  :-)

Started the fun by winging a 2-set for Goodfella, looking extra smooth in a white shirt and jacket. However my conversation stopped a few times and my girl went back to give GFella some attention with the other girl, while I stood by, waiting for her to turn back to me. I felt like a chump, but I didn't know how to hold her attention. I was surprised that my girl said they were electronics engineers, although Redpole had met them before and said they were club regulars.

Approached a 2-set by the bar, brought in GFella, and this time I jammed myself in between the 2 girls so they couldn't communicate. However many times I ran out of things to say and my girl would try to talk to her friend. However whenever this happened, I would just tap her until I got her attention again and plow on with some more random conversation. Then I remembered Redpole talking about BT'ing with random acts, which I have done sometimes before, so I pretended to push my girl of her chair and grab her at the last minute. However, I usually push my pranks to the limit, and this was no exception. A group of guys nearby were laughing in hysterics and I actually expected one of them to come over to try to chat up my girl. Then I wondered why this group of attractive, fun guys were not talking to any girls and remembered that most guys won't.
My girl was super hot in her ripped stockings, but I merely felt like I was keeping her occupied, and eventually she pulled her friend away.
However, on account at her 'enjoyment' at being pushed off her chair, I got that stunt in one more time :-)

Opened various other sets, practicing body positioning and bringing in the wing. The thought did pop into my mind that we were annoying girls, but having reached this point in my life, I don't care anymore. There's a bunch of cute girls out there who may be interesting people, but their opinion or rejection mean nothing to me. I remember reading threads on local Australian music forums about girls being annoyed at getting pestered by girls on the dance floor, and I used that as further reason not to approach girls anywhere in the club.
So while I might piss-off a girl who doesn't want to meet anyone, the chance of meeting HBtheone make it worthwhile, and I've let a couple of those slip through my fingers.

However, I would be interested to know if other guys are meeting their quality, longterm girls mainly from clubs, or through day game?

Memorable sets:
* watching Redpole in action, mandhandling this HB and BT'ing the fuck outta her. Then I think Redpole got me to wing, and I opened this average girl, but I tried some physical BTs, and picked her up and took her over to a seat. More chat, I even tried to run strawberry fields, then Redpole appeared and it turned out he had been occupying the friend, who I didn't know existed. (It was all starting to become a blur of people and conversation). The bootcamp disolved from my mind, and I briefly thought the two of us were going to bounce these girls outta the club, then Redpole clarified that we had other work to do, and I realised he had been expertly distracting the female friend for me. I had nothing to lose, so I pashed my girl, then number closed. Maybe I didnt save her number, or she didn't msg me back.
* Approaching a HB9, part of a 3-set. Then some K-guy just grabbed her and whisked her away. This is memorable because I want to do shit like that! The confidence and body language some of these guys have is interesting.

The following day we practiced some daygame around the Sinsa area. At the meet point, we watched a Korean PUA try to number close some random girl in the street. Now I'm going to think that any smooth-looking Korean guy is into pickup.
The brief was great, but my performance felt rubbish. We went to a busy coffee shop, so busy that I felt that if I went to another table, all eyes would be on me!  I spun around and opened a 3-set at the table behind us. Oddly, the 3rd girl just got up and left. I brought in Socrates to wing and he did a great job, but my girl was getting pissed and I kept plowing until she got up and told her friend they were going to leave.

Mr Fantastic and I prowled up and down the street. I approached any 2-set that was reasonably attractive and had little success keeping them entertained for long. Mr Fantastic was doing well with his "walk along side them" approach, although not many of them stopped either. Then I noticed a red Elmo doll for sale outside some "weird foreign items" store. I thought it would be a cool prop to start up conversation, which I have seen before, although I do agree with Redpole that it may not lead to a D2.
However, the set that most hooked was this 2-set who were taking photos, and I used Elmo to BT the girls. I was standing next to the less-attractive girl, but given that I wasn't planning to meet these girls again, it was easiest to bring Mr Fantastic in for the cute girl.
After a brief exchange, I remembered that it was a good idea to separate the girls, so I was like "whoa this place over here is so much better" and brought my girl to the other side of the pavement, positioned so I could see the other two.
At one moment I almost lost my girl, as she turned around to look at her friend, but I said "wow, I think your friend really likes my friend" and plowed on with entertaining my girl.
After watching Mr Fantastic number close his girl, I wound up our conversation by saying we had to meet our friends.
I hope Mr Fantastic got a D2 with his girl.

We went to meet the other guys at a coffee shop, where Goodfella was smoothly working the venue. Upstairs I looked around and didn't quite know what to do, but a 1-set looked at me so I took that as reason enough to not not-approach :-)  I opened somehow and sat down, funnily enough Goodfella was chatting to this girl at the table nextdoor. However, having studied the ancient art of "How girls pretend not to notice guys while they walk past", I focused on my girl as I approached and made sure not to make eye contact with Goodfella or his girl. The thought flashed in my mind that I might use the same opener that Goodfella did, so I think I just asked if she had the time. Anyway, her 2 friends arrived as I was asking about that, and it seemed kind of awkward, so I ejected.

I think then I might have winged a 3-set for Mr Fantastic and Redpole. They were both doing well, with their arms around their girls, and I heard Redpole talking about logistics with his girl.
I never thought I fully had the attention of my girl, so when she would look at her friends, I'd BT her to try to get her attention. I tried to reposition myself, so we were both facing away, but it didn't really work. Maybe I could have just pulled her chair towards me.
So she got up and dragged her friends away.

I'm forming a picture that SNLing a girl, or at least extracting her, from a 2/3-set is almost impossible, so it's best to go for the D2. But I'm still unsure about how much activity is required to get the girl attracted, how many threads are required so she feels qualified, etc.  When I heard Redpole talking about logistics I realised that he was running quite a quick routine, like maybe 15 minutes.  
It would be great to hear a typical set from start-to-finish... but I remember that it's meant to be a continuous game of escalation, and so you calibrate it on-the-fly to see how far you can go.
I guess once you know their logistics, time constraints, friends, etc. however then you might just quickly qualify her and number close. But how to qualify her so quickly??

And so that was a wrap for the weekend... it was great to meet some new friends and bond over a crazy weekend of pickup :-D

Redpole...

Redpole: I guess from reading stories of other bootcamps, I was expecting to meet a peacocked PUA who dazzled us with your displays of opening 12-sets of HB11's, and while I would have liked to see more of you in action, from what I did see I can tell you're a smooth operator who could do pickup while wearing a potato sack :-D

I didn't need much encouragement to approach, but I'm sure I amused you with my waving arms and bizarre conversation topics that you overheard. However, I guess those are things that I have to work on alone...



I need to improve:
* my qualification routines. Honestly I spent the whole weekend just spouting out random things like... do you cook... do you exercise... do you shave your moustache... and then tell her how shite other K-girls did that, and I thought she was cool.
* time bridging: I barely tried to time bridge, because it's not my town. I need to work on some qualification and conversation threads that lead to me doing an interesting activity.
* story telling: I'm not sure if I should try to be the cool interesting guy, or channel my innate Willy Wonka. I'm forming a vision that I could be like a playboy mad-scientist, eg. Guy Piece in "The Time Machine", doing nerdy things, but while making them stylish and cool.


Over the last 2 months, as a matter of chatting to more girls than the preceeding 10 years, I'm losing the concern over a single girl or a single number.  In the past, I'd meet one girl a year who I thought could have been a really good thing. We'd meet at some random house party, I'd get her number, maybe call once, but give up for fear of rejection, or over-thinking. I'd spend weeks thinking too much about this one girl, and not doing anything.
Now I don't have time to call all the potential girls that I've started interacting with.
However, I worry that not many of these girls have spiked my attention enough to chase them, and I can see now why girls wouldn't bother to meet a guy who hadn't qualified them.
There was a girl 2 weeks ago, HBmongol, who I still think about after she stood me up. But looking at her Facebook, she's one of those types that takes lots of photos of herself (always at the best angle) and has lots of guys and girls posting on her wall to hang out. I'm sufficiently intimated and my text game not good enough to bother.

But enough rambling...


POST BOOTCAMP: (!!)

The temptation to watch asian porn on the 120" TV in my motel room was strong, and my anxiety was high, but I felt the weekend would be wasted if I didn't follow through and approach some girls on Sunday night.

Itaewon is the kind of area that gives me anxiety like going out solo to the best party areas in Australia. Actually, entering venues with adequete lighting that are filled with English teachers probably makes me more anxious.
I feel uncomfortable in pub situations like Mr Fantastic maybe felt uncomfortable in nightclubs. The guys are usually older and rough, and they hunch over their beers at the bar while talking about football.
And the English teachers I've met so far are usually very "cliquey" and talking together in their groups.

I researched the venues that Goodfella told me about and jumped in a taxi. I rolled into Seoul Pub, slowing wandering in and surveying the situation. Some guys at the bar looked me up and down. It seemed like it would be weird if I didn't have a drink in my hand, so I ordered a rum n coke, altho I barely drank any.

Saw a 3-set of russian girls at a semi-standing table and opened them. *tap tap* lightly kino'ed two waists while asking if "they knew of any cool places to hangout". Chatted for a bit, oscillating between the hottest girl and one of the others. I was still standing, so I got one to stand and stole her chair.  hahaha  By now two random guys had displayed their awesome lack of game, by coming up and chatting to me, telling me how heaps of guys had tried to chat these girls up and failed. I tried to get this black american english teacher to join me, to help distract the obstacles, but he had more excuses than a Christian girl.
The girls were from the Ukraine, and my target still wanted a chair. I tried to BT her by pointing to some lame guy nearby, and tell her that he would happily get her a chair. My joke kind of flopped, and the guy actually mistook my pointing for an invitation to come over. However this douchbag was happy to get her a chair for me, so I think that little game kind of worked.
My target was in a higher chair, so I BT'ed my saying how tall she was.
Conversational topics included.... "So, have you ever been on holiday to Chernobyl?" (site of a nuclear meltdown) however that flopped due to their stunning lack of world news knowledge, or maybe they were only 19 years old. hahaha
I was trying to escalate my kino, which may have been a bad idea with the 2 obstacles, and my target kept telling me to slow down, relax. Eventually she blew me out... "we are having a girls night"... and they were happy to talk to this other snivvling white boy who had been offering them his balls all night.

So, I was trying to playfully ignore her annoyance at my kino. Maybe not jokingly enough. I think if I had actually calibrated, and slowed down, maybe I could have gone further. Perhaps because their english wasn't great, is another reason to slow it down. ???

The only other girls were this big 8-set sitting down at a couch table. I had made eye contact a few times with a cute, white girl in the group. I managed to drag the black american english teacher over there, altho he actually started chatting to my target. Oh well, I didn't rate my chances with 8 girls.
I started chatting to the other half of the table and very clumsily invited myself to sit down when one of the girls went to the toilet. However soon my black teacher friend dropped his drink on the floor, and then some of the friends return to the table, and they all wanted to have "a girls night".

I re-approached the Ukrainian 3-set, but didn't have any luck. My black teacher friend decided to lecture me on the ways of love, including how girls don't like it when they see you approach other girls. I chatted to a few random people as I tried to casually move towards the exit, and then left.

Do girls like it when they see you chatting-up other girls?  I think yes...

Walking down the street, a group of massive American GI's were coming towards me. Couldn't resist the temptation to open them "Do you know where the army barracks is?"
They were not amused...

Went into a downstairs dance club, lots of african american dudes, some chubby white english teachers, some random K-girls. Two of the staff were quite cute, but the cutest girl was sitting with some friends.
I hung around for a while, moving around the club, opening most of the girls. Most of them I did *tap tap* "what time does this place close" but none of them really hooked.
I had a confidence boost from learning some of the new physical BT stuff, and plowed with some physical BT until the girl couldn't help but laugh.

And that's about it...  ;-)










 

[RedpoleQ]

Kino should be seamless and smoothly escalated so the girl doesn't even realize it's happening.  This takes time to develop and if you're creeping girls out, that's GOOD!  Much easier to go too far then dial it back than go to slow because you'll learn faster.

I think the Ukrainian girl was quite keen, but you needed to chill out a bit.  Admittedly hard to do after a boot camp weekend, I know I was TOTALLY wired and I didn't even drink all of the coffee you did.

The same girls who go out in the daytime go out at night.  One of the goals of moving into qualification is to take away the "club" vibe and create a real connection as people rather than as club fixtures.

* story telling: I'm not sure if I should try to be the cool interesting guy, or channel my innate Willy Wonka. I'm forming a vision that I could be like a playboy mad-scientist, eg. Guy Piece in "The Time Machine", doing nerdy things, but while making them stylish and cool.

BOTH!

The more colorful your character, the better.  You can calibrate he mix of the two according to how the qualification goes.

I'm forming a picture that SNLing a girl, or at least extracting her, from a 2/3-set is almost impossible, so it's best to go for the D2.

You do BOTH.  These are not mutually exclusive.  Set the day2 and still try and fuck her that night.  The fact that you're already planning to meet her again, reduces the ASD somewhat because it's not a one night stand.

Good work and keep at it!