[Smoove's Seoul Bootcamp - November 2016]

You crushed it on boot camp. It was awesome seeing you in action once you got used to approaching. Looking forward to rolling with you when I'm back in Seoul next month, man!

[Bootcamp with martin]

Yeah, man! It was awesome working with you. You've been making major progress and I'm glad to be a part of that. I hope you keep participating in the alumni chat.

 

You have a lot to offer, even when you're asking questions...ESPECIALLY when you're asking questions!

 

We can all learn from each other's experiences.

 

Good work and keep at it!

[Shanghai Bootcamp with Kane Vast]

Nice work, man! Welcome to the party!

[Newbie FR: Freelance Model during Mall Game / Direct Opener]

Great to see you writing your first FR.

 

Agree with pretty much everything that James said for feedback.

 

You're really weak on BT Spikes in general...probably because you're too concerned with coming across as weird and don't want to take risks when everything seems to be going well.

 

The issue is that if you don't push your interactions harder, you'll have a lot of pleasant interactions that go nowhere whereas if you take more risks you'll increase your chances of having interactions that actually go somewhere.

 

I disagree with the "no kino" part. I think that it's important for two reasons:

 

1) most people don't kino because they are afraid to so it's an important learning stage to develop the ability to kino

 

2) I think that touching seems to really help with getting them more involved in the set, even if it's just a nice to meet you handshake.

 

Good work getting out there and write more FRs.

[Lessons Learned in Taipei]

I lied to her and told her that I am going to live and work in Taipei, because, in my past experiences, Asian women go cold on you when they find out that you are leaving their country soon.

Totally depends on how you're running your sarge. If you're coming across with lots of relationship value and not much adventure value, this is true. You have to run your sarges quite differently on the road than in a place where you live where the girl can get long term value from being with you.

 

She was a little hesitant at first to come over to my place, but I told her that it is normal for people in my part of the country to invite people over, and I did a time-constraint of going walking afterwards.

Time constraint is good, but I don't think setting that "this is the American way" frame is all that great. The reason why you had some trouble is likely because you tried to bounce her back with something that involves her giving value and not getting value. Why would she even want to spend time teaching you Chinese? Do you like it when girls want to meet you to learn English? I don't.

 

During our exercise time I set some really good frames about my views of sex, and how I think it is strange how Asian guys want women to pretend to be innocent.

Excellent!

 

I got her top off, and had her hands rubbing on my cock. She was very insistent that she "wasn't in the mood" and that we could do it "next time." I figured that since I had already gotten so far with her that I could afford to not keep pushing for sex, and that it would likely happen on our next encounters...

Almost never happens. If you get this far and don't close, you'll almost never get another chance....unless you ask her to be your girlfriend. I've never tried it myself, but it seems like it works pretty consistently for Asian guys.

 

She told me that she was "kind of dating someone", and asked me if it makes her bad for being in bed with me while she is already in a relationship.

What was your response to this?

 

Anyway, we left the park with me trying to get her to come up to my home right then, and her saying "tomorrow", "I just want to go up to my room and take a shower", and even offering to meet with me the next day. I was noticeably pissed off, as I knew her offer of meeting the next day would likely end the same- with her not coming up to my room. She didn't want me to walk her to her door because the doorman may see us, and she's had her boyfriend over before so she doesn't want to get caught. I was so pissed off at her that I turned by back on her and waved her off as I pulled out my phone and started to walk away from her.

Being angry doesn't help at all. And it clouds your ability to think strategically. But also, this is really partly your fault for not pushing when you had the chance. You got her all juiced up and then left her for the other guy to eat up the mess. Don't get me wrong, I've done this plenty of times. PLENTY!

 

It's definitely a special skill to keep pushing for sex in a way that you make her want to do it.

 

I was hoping in the back of my mind that my showing frustration at her would make her try to please me by giving into my wishes

Punishing people usually leads to them resenting you and wanting to create distance unless they feel massive amounts of indebtedness towards you which usually takes a looooooong time to create.

 

Don't take "I'm not in the mood" as an acceptable form of objection. Even if SHE wasn't in the mood, I still should have pulled my pants off and maybe gotten a blowjob from her.

This is the wrong attitude. The right attitude is that you want to put her in the mood. Not focus on extracting pleasure...focus on GIVING pleasure. Now it may be that this girl doesn't really enjoy sex in the first place and only does it because the guy wants to. This means that she uses sex as a tool to get other things.

 

This is fine, as long as she genuinely likes and is interested in sex because under those circumstances, if you can get her turned on and communicate how much she's going to get out of having sex with you, you can often get them to want to try.

 

Don't think that you will gain a woman's trust by "respecting her boundaries" and not pushing her to have sex with you, and thinking that you will get another chance in the future. This girl and I slept in the same bed together minutes after I had her topless, rubbing my cock, and I didn't continue to push for sex through her objections, and she STILL didn't trust me enough to come back up to my home for the 3rd time.

This is not a trust issue. This is her not wanting to put herself in an awkward situation. She's smart enough to know that if she goes up with you you'll try to have sex with her. So, why should she go back to your place?

 

This is EXACTLY why it's so important to go for the close full on when you have the chance. You'll rarely get a second because she has her guard up much higher.

 

I DEFINITELY need to utilize the D-Move more (I often forget it for some reason, as I think that I am too focused on turning the woman on and getting HER clothes off, rather than my own).

There should be a matching escalation in nakedness. People feel vulnerable with their clothes off, so by taking you clothes off too, it makes girls feel more comfortable. I know of some guys who's strategy is to take ALL of their clothes off first. I think that can be a bit too shocking for girls, but I can see it working too if you can hold your frame well enough.

 

I've actually had many occasions in the mainland China where I failed to fully close a woman, and she STILL came back up to my home multiple times (and even after I continued to fail to successfully close her!). Mainland China girls and Taiwan girls are very different!

Actually, not being able to close Taiwanese girls on the fist attempt and then getting a second try is not that uncommon. I've had it happen to me any number of times, actually.

 

I think that with enough comfort, it can work, but you really never know.

 

A frame I use when closing the girl is the Rake frame

ABSOLUTELY!

[Socrates & HBTaipeinineLOL]

So, don't tell her pics? Just tell her Da'an station? "We're going to a place near Da'an station."

If you bounce her to something at Da'an station first, like a coffee shop or ice cream place, or whatever, then you can say, "near Da'an" station without it seeming like you're really being sleazy by actually taking her to your house.

 

I would pretty much always do it that way, rather than try to bounce her straight home. If you're trying to do a straight home bounce, I'd say that you should come up with something better than pics. They better be really fucking special to bother to get in a taxi.

 

Alternatively, you could run sexy questions so she knows she's mostly or partly sold on the idea of having sex with you and then she's bouncing back because she's curious.

[Socrates & HBTaipeinineLOL]

Great feedback from Romeo. In the question game, you didn't tell us much about what questions you asked and what her answers were. Really know almost nothing about this girl so it's hard to say what was going on. Did she compliment you on anything? Also, can you share how much time you spent at each venue, and what time you met her and how long the day2 was overall?

 

Also, what day of the week was this that she met you?

 

Also agree about your date plan where it would have been good to bounce her to a venue in your neighborhood and then bounce her back to yours rather than a straight taxi bounce.

 

Also, when you do bounce, probably would be good to mention the exact station you're going to as that might make it seem like not such a big deal. So when she asked where you were bouncing to, if you'd said, right by Da'an station, I think it might have been a lot easier for her to go along.

[Height and Size in Asia]

Nice!

[Cooking with my Sexy Student FR]

It's not that you ALWAYS have to pay. You have to consider the dynamic. Generally, if she's a student and you're working, you should pay. If she's also working than going dutch can be OK, though I tend to think that the bigger the age gap the less OK it is to go dutch. Looking cheap is extremely unattractive and an age gap with no money to show for it is DOUBLY unattractive. But it also depends on the culture.

 

So in Japan, and Korea, going dutch is fairly common. But it's much more rare in China because Chinese are newly rich and men have significantly more earning power than women in addition to the fact that a man's financial means are still a major part of selection criteria. I think that the larger the middle class the less common that is because middle class men and women tend to have similar earning power.

 

In general, I think that a more elegant solution is to pay for something, and then have her pay for the next thing. If you do want her to throw in some cash, I've found the best way to handle it is to say something like, "Do you have x amount?" where x amount is between a 3rd and a half of the total. That way, if she doesn't she can say no, and gracefully extricate herself and you don't look cheap because you actually do have and are willing to pay.

[Cooking with my Sexy Student FR]

As we were walking to the register to check out I pointed to some alcohol on the wall, and asked her to choose what she wanted. She picked out one and I picked out one. I said something along the lines of "We will drink it today" and then she looked at her phone and said she had a meeting at 12:30. As we stood in line I playfully poked her the sides of her back and stomach. I wanted to further invest her in the process of meeting up with me, so I asked her if she had any money and I suggested that she buy one of the alcoholic drinks for me. She said she didn't have any money, and that she didn't want the drinks. She then looked at her phone, and said she had to go, and left.

It seems pretty clear that this is where things went wrong. You MAJORLY DLV'd yourself here by asking her if she had money. You are an authority figure and therefore must have money. So trying to get her to pay for you doesn't make a lot of sense. She's a student, and you're a teacher. You may be thinking that she should get you gifts and all, but getting girls to put up money is really not sexy. ESPECIALLY in China.

 

You may not know how Mainland Chinese are about money, but they're very traditional about guys paying. And I'd say that in this case, the relative power position here either makes you look cheap, or it makes her feel obligated in an uncomfortable way. Like, she's obligated to do whatever you want if she wants to do well in class.

 

Then she blocked you on WeChat. I don't know if this is recoverable. The way I see it, she's given you multiple opportunities and you didn't handle them well. I think that your major problem is that you don't really actually like this girl very much and she's picking up on that too. She's not emotionally engaged, because you're not emotionally engaged.

 

Think about the Art of Seduction. In all of the seducer types there is a strong emotional element. From your emotional volatility, it seems you'd gravitate most towards a "Demonic Rake" but the foundation of the rake is that he loves women, and that definitely doesn't come across from your sarge.

[Cooking with my Sexy Student FR]

At that point I had given up on her, and on Thursday she sent me a text message telling me that she wouldn't be coming to my class because she had to go home. I figured that she was just trying to avoid the embarrassment of looking me in the face after she missed our lunch date. Because I was feeling in somewhat of a benevolent mood, I text messaged her

This is not a particularly helpful attitude. What you're saying is that how you treat her is not a strategic decision but is based on your emotions at the time. If you run your seductions and relationships based off of emotion rather than on putting her into the position you want, you won't be as successful as you could be.

 

She then messaged me the next morning asking me "what will you do today". I was still a little hesitant to continue interacting with her since she had acted so disrespectfully (disrespectfully in my eyes, anyway)

Irrelevant to the art of seduction...unless your main goal is to get respect and not sex with girls you want.

 

I took RedpoleQ's advice and invited her to a group activity with me and my friends (going to the supermarket), but she responded "I do not like play with so many people"

This is a great reply from her. Because it implies that she wants to see you one-on-one. A great reply to this would have been, "Since you want me all to yourself, I'll be done with everyone at x time and we can meet up then."

 

Her leather pants got bunched up around her ankles, and as I tried to get them off her LMR started increasing, to the point where she pushed me away and started getting dressed, saying that she had a meeting that she had to go to.

Did you check her time constraints BEFORE bouncing her back to your place? If not, this is a major mistake, because you don't know if she's bullshitting you or not.

 

If the issue was with getting the pants all the way off, maybe you should have left them on and turned her on her stomach. You could have inserted in that position.

 

Did she give any verbal objections to your sexcalation? If so, what were they?

 

I suggested that we go to the kitchen and I cook some food. As we washed dishes I messaged RedpoleQ about the situation, and he recommended that I take her out of my home and to a restaurant.

If I had realized that you'd progressed things sexually so far, I would have given very different advice. Most likely the best move at this point after she put her clothes (assuming you still had an hour or two of more time) is to run some more comfort with her and then try again.

 

Typically, if a girl goes that far then she wants to have sex but has some reservations about it. One of those is usually that she feels pressured to do it, but when you remove the pressure by letting her know that you like her just fine and it's not all about the sex, then she feels it's ok to have sex with her.

 

Before she left we set up a cooking date for Saturday morning at 10a.m.

This is better done BEFORE the sexcalation as a general rule, so if she is thinking (or says) that you just want her for sex, the fact that you have the next meet scheduled allows you to show that it's not about sex at all, and sex is just one of the many things you want to do with her.

 

She responded and told me that her performance is at 7:30a.m. in the morning. Guess I am going to have to re-arrange my morning workout schedule hahaha

How was the performance?

[Cooking with my Sexy Student FR]

because I didn't want our time together to turn into me just trying to get sex out of her and her resisting, I backed off and had on do some painting instead on the floor beside my bed.

Might have been a better idea to bounce her out of your place and save the painting for the day 3 or 4 if you'd already decided that you weren't going to push for the close at that time.

 

I wanted to show her that I valued her for more than sex (which, honestly, is probably false. Her main value offering to me is sex, so I guess I was being disingenuous by trying to make her think differently).

This is what qualification is for!

 

A part of me feels like it is easier to just start with new women, rather than try to figure out what is going wrong with my current women

This approach is fine if you run a lot of volume. It's kind of like selling one-size-fits-all clothing. You can do it, but you'll sell more if you have small, medium, and large!

 

In my class I frequently see her rest her head on her female friend's shoulder that sits next to her, as if she is having a hard time absorbing/staying focused on all of the information that is coming at her (she did this when we were watching a rap music video in class, which kind of disappointed me as I chose the video- LSD by Asap Rocky- because I thought it was very cool)

This might be a big turnoff for Chinese since the video takes place in Japan...

 

"sorry. Next timeis good". I responded "Today AND next time ;b"

This is good, but you shouldn't have pushed for the meet more because there was no indication that she was on the fence about it, which is the time when you need to push the meet.

 

Today I also sent her some pictures of two girls that had come over to my home that I had cooked an omelet for

This is probably a really bad move. So, you're basically devaluing what you've done for her and that also implies that she's not valued or special and girls DEFINITELY shouldn't be having sex with guys that don't value them...in fact, they're really only supposed to have sex with guys that value them so much, they married them!

 

I think, however, that the overarching problem is that you're just trying to push for her to come to your place. In general if you have a girl in the sex location and fail to close, you'll trigger ASD so you need to set up a meet with no close logistics and/or with friends so she knows you're not only interested in sex. (I'm pretty sure that's in the text messaging webinar.)

 

By not only being interested in sex, it's more OK for her to have sex with you. Once again, this is where qualification comes into play. Also, whenever you're with a girl on a day 1, day 2, day 3, etc you should set up the next meet--at least tentatively. Always be timebridging. This serves multiple purposes.

 

1. it let's the girl know you want to keep seeing her

2. by already planning to see her again it makes it more ok to have sex with you because it's part of an ongoing "relationship"

 

Also, pressuring her a lot without keeping it fun and cute is a definite no-no. It's unclear if this is a problem or not but from what you've written it seems like you're really focused on what you want and not thinking at all about what she wants.

[Cooking with my Sexy Student FR]

I didn't need to try to force the sexual interaction if she was being resistant

I wouldn't consider this to be forceful. It's really the best way to start because it's easy to access and it high a high chance of turning her on quickly.

 

I couldn't really come up with much in the moment to say about her personality, because that was the first time we had met outside of the classroom

This means that your qualification is weak. It is the most difficult phase in pickup to get good at (in my opinion) so it's understandable, but it's something ot focus on more.

 

I did do some future projection by saying that she could help me with Chinese, and that I would give her some extra help with English, and also teach her how to paint

Yeah, I missed these in my read over. How did she respond to these?

 

I feel like there is a lot of physical attraction between us, she just had some kind of resistance to sleeping with me.

It's VERY, VERY rare for girls not to put up some kind of resistance. It's not the west and there has been on sexual revolution so even if they're totally down, they usually put up some level of resistance just to not appear slutty. Asian guys don't respect girls who like sex (except in Japan).

 

I was also wondering why so many weeks passed before you set up the meet since she seems to have come on pretty strong in the beginning...

The day after we swapped contact information she messaged me, I sent her a picture of some spaghetti I was eating, she said that she wanted to eat some food that I made, and when I asked her what her schedule is, she didn't respond.

This is normal behavior. How long before you followed up again with her?

 

Anyway, she's a beautiful girl, and I'm sure she would be a fun sex-partner, but I'm not in dire need of her body at the moment

I think that this attitude might be holding you back from being more successful because instead of working hard at figuring out how and what you could do better you're letting yourself off the hook by saying that it's good to play it cool and not be interested.

 

It is good not to care too much, but to improve you have to really want to get better and focus on it and think about it a lot. The fact is that each particular girl is a great lesson for us to learn and improve from, but if we're not pushing ourselves then we won't get the lesson.

 

This may not be the case with you, but I'm pointing it out just in case.

[Cooking with my Sexy Student FR]

This is a very difficult situation because she's one of your students so she could have all sorts of hidden motives for her behavior.

 

If this were a girl from cold approach or an introduction, I would say that you definitely could have closed her. She gave what seems like VERY token resistance that you could have easily gotten past by turning her on more and being more persistent.

 

Since she's your student though, I wouldn't advise the same kind of tactics and I think you need much clearer signals. First off though, it sounds like you really should have been working her neck and ears a lot more, because it sounds like you went straight for her legs.

 

Also, future projection is woefully missing. Also, not a lot of qualification. Sure you let her know you appreciate her for the things you did, but you didn't let her know that you appreciate any unique qualities about who she is as a person--at least from what you wrote here.

 

Not setting the next meet was a major mistake, but really, with no future projection, it's hard to imagine how you would have set it up. I think that your intentions for this girl need to be a lot more clear. Like are you trying to date her, or you just want her to come over and have sex with you occasionally or you just want to close her once or..?

 

Because maybe being more overt about everything with her, verbally would have been the way to go. Really hard to say though, because for all I know, she's just trying to get good English class grades and thinks that if the teacher thinks he'll get some, she will.

 

I was also wondering why so many weeks passed before you set up the meet since she seems to have come on pretty strong in the beginning...

[Height and Size in Asia]

I think that in China and Japan, especially, girls prefer a slimmer body type. Apparently, in China, having muscles is a bad thing because it implies that you're a farmer or other laborer while being pale and skinny implies that you are inside studying and therefore more likely to be rich/upper class.

 

In Japan, it's more about the intimidation factor. Japanese are very easily "scared" and even wearing sunglasses, is considered scary to them.

 

As a black guy, you're especially scary, so it's likely that you need to come across as even milder. I'm quite short, clocking in at just under 5'4" not including my afro which gives me an extra inch or two, lols. But when I first started gaming, I didn't have an afro and I wore a variety of hats and that suited me just fine.

 

I've never really considered my height to be an issue at all, except that guys try to physically intimidate me in clubs more often than guys who are taller, but since they're not really trying to fight (most of the time), not backing down seems to work just fine.

 

In any case, I think that the ideal body type for Asian women is slightly taller than average (which is, as you point out taller in Korea than other parts of Asia) and lean. Muscles are fine, but you don't want to look bulked.

[Guilty and Flaky Booty Call FR - a LOT of lessons here!]

This is a pretty typical Asian situation...especially Chinese, and SE Asia but not uncommon in Japan or Korea either where a girl has her locked down future husband and wants to bang on the side.

 

This is typical in the west too, but usually women don't also sleep with the husband type unless they are actually ready to get married or are gold diggers through and through.

[Guilty and Flaky Booty Call FR - a LOT of lessons here!]

She messaged me a couple of times, but I didn't respond to her (I had fallen for a Chinese girl I had sex with the previous week, and I was busy trying to keep her interested in me. It didn't work)

Always good to have plans b, c, d, at least. As the pimps say, "one is as good as none"

 

Bahm messaged me one night to go walking around campus, and I was tempted to turn her down (I didn't want to seem to available), but I decided to go ahead and do it.

You should reward good behavior. PERIOD. It's the most powerful training technique of all time for getting people (and animals) to do what you want.

 

She would message me frequently, and I would frequently ignore her messages (Once I have a woman's interest, I like to occasionally play it somewhat cruel and disinterest- it keeps them on their toes and keeps them from taking me for granted). I even messaged her pictures of other women that I was hanging out with (making her think that I was sleeping with other women), just to make her jealous.

This will usually make girls crazy and lead to a really fucked up and volatile dynamic.

 

Sometimes I would message her for sex, and she would say that she is too busy. One time she denied me for sex three times in a row

See, right here, because you treat her badly, she's doing the same back to you.

 

This has become a pattern for us. She will do something that I don't like- such as denying me sex, or acting really guilty for cheating on her boyfriend (and then denying me sex), and I will withdraw from her, which will eventually make her contact me, giving me what I want.

This is a pattern that you started by punishing her for good behavior (ie trying to meet you).

 

Around November, her behavior started to change. She stopped contacting me for sex, and she became increasingly passive. Instead of her coming after me for sex, I had to start pushing her for sex. Normally, whenever she would come over to home, she would begin to sexually escalate on me, but suddenly things changed. I would see her sitting on my bed holding herself back, keeping her distance from me, which forced to escalate on her. I would sometimes be successful in my escalating on her, and other times she would deny me/it would be too difficult to turn her on sexually. I didn't like how passive she was becoming, so I tried to revive the relationship by being romantic with her (giving her a drawing I made, giving her a gift for our 3-month anniversary, trying to text her more often to show her that I value her for more than sex, etc.). It didn't really seem to work.

When you punish someone for good behavior they stop working for you. There's a big difference between:

"Hey, dad, I got a B"

"Good work, son. Next time I bet you can get an A"

 

And:

 

"Hey, dad, I got a B"

"Well, at least you didn't get a C." Or even worse "You think I care about Bs? I'll be impressed when you bring me As."

 

The first set is much more motivating, while the second is demoralizing and build resentment.

 

And then the worst part about how this all played out is that when she started giving you non-compliance you started giving her MORE compliance, essentially rewarding her BAD behavior which has trained her that if she doesn't fuck you and isn't so available you put in more effort than when she did.

 

He asked me if I had sex with her, and I feigned innocence, saying

that she was just my Chinese teacher (which was a lie). He asked me this because he was insinuating that he was going to try to have sex with her if I hadn't already staked my claim in her. I could have told him that I was already sleeping with her, but something inside of me said that would be an insecure thing to do

I probably would have gone with something in between like, "well, we've been out a few times, but I'm not sure where this is going." This lets him know that you're working on her and that he would be stepping on your toes without being explicit.

 

As time passed (see all of the things that I wrote in the first few paragraphs), I started to become jealous and insecure.

This is all bad...was this once she was giving you less compliance?

 

I was really horny, so I wanted to have sex with her, before the possibly serious discussion could ruin my chances at getting laid. She told me she was on her period, and I suggested that she give me a blowjob. She resisted, saying "Don't make me do this", but eventually I had her on her knees giving me a blowjob.

This is a really bad dynamic and is one reason it's important to have more than one girl on the go. You don't want her to be able to control you with sex, and you really don't want her to be doing sexual things for you and not because she wants to.

 

The next week or so she came back over to my apartment. We watched 50 Shades of Grey. I hadn't expected her to come over that day, so I had already masturbated that day. I figured that just watching a movie with her and not trying to have sex with her (since I wasn't horny anymore) would show her that I value her for more than sex

That's true, except by watching something like 50 Shades, you set a very sexual frame. So, it's very mixed signals you're sending which creates quite messy relationship dynamics.

 

At first Bahm responded positively, but eventually she started going somewhat cold (she ignored some of my calls and messages, which I didn't really like since at the beginning of our relationship she was the one messaging me, and now here she was ignoring some of my messages two or three times in a row). She even flaked on meeting with me one night, saying that she was going to go get a puppy. I didn't like the dynamic that was being set up, so I stopped messaging her for a few days.

This dynamic was messed up from the beginning when you ignored her calls and texts. You can see how she probably felt when you ignored her and why her behavior changed just like you changed your behavior.

 

During the last day before campus closed for winter vacation, she messaged me asking if we could meet. I eagerly agreed, and then a couple of hours later she cancelled the plans on me, saying that she had to pack some things for her trip home the next day. I sent her about 4 or 5 messages in response, saying that she had been acting rude towards me, and that I didn't want to speak with her until she changed her disrespectful attitude. She messaged me back apologizing, but I didn't respond. During the winter vacation she messaged me on three separate occasions, and I didn't respond to her (I wanted her to feel the pain that come with taking me for granted).

This is all bad...you're creating lots of negative anchors to communicating with you. If you're going to tell her anything negative, it's far better to do it in person. Why would she want to meet you when she thinks you're angry with her? When you were a kid, did you want to be around your mom/dad more or less after they angrily yelled at you? Less, for sure.

 

Then you compounded it by slapping her wrist when she put forth some positive effort. Instead of making he "feel the pain of taking you for granted" she's feeling the pain of interacting with you at all.

 

The fucked up thing about the situation is that she said "it just happened", when in fact she knew damn well that she was putting herself in a position for sex to happen with my coworker by going over to his house at night.

You have to understand that the feminist movement hasn't happened in Asia (thank god!) so women need plausible deniability to protect their image way more.

 

Now, I figure that there is a high chance that her and my coworker will have sex again (especially since she is going over to his apartment late at night to record music), and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I mean, I enjoy spending time and having sex with her, but the idea of sharing a woman with my coworker kind of disgusts me. She weakly put up the front that her relationship with my coworker will be just about making music, but I know her well enough to know that she will likely have sex with my coworker again, if she just so happens to be feeling horny or particularly dissatisfied with her boyfriend one day.

And disatissfied with you because you've been ignoring her messages and reprimanding her.

 

I would like to continue having a sexual relationship with this girl, but she seems very mentally confused. She expresses guilt in cheating on her boyfriend (a boyfriend who she says that she really loves, and who makes her "wetter" than any other man), and she can't seem to come to terms with the fact that she still desires to sleep with other men because her friend isn't satisfying her all of the way/she isn't ready for the "exclusive" relationship that she claims she wants. She seems to love her boyfriend (or at least she says she does ), but she can't reconcile this with her constant cheating. I feel kind of sorry for her, because she seems so lost and unhappy in her current relationships, but I know that if she doesn't sleep with me, she will eventually find another man to cheat with (probably my coworker, again). Even though we had sex last night, she isn't in my "Top 5" because she hasn't shown enough reliability for consistent sex.

Actually, what it sounds like is going on here is that her boyfriend isn't giving her what she wants and neither are you or your co-worker. If she was satisfied with him she wouldn't be trying to replace him with a new boyfriend. She's not actually trying to cheat. She's trying to leave him for someone else, but you turned her down, as did your co-worker.

 

We can't be sure, but it seems pretty clear that her boyfriend is either sleeping with other women, or not treating her well in other ways, or both.

 

Also, the way you treat her, it's no surprise she isn't reliable. She was reliable...in the beginning. But YOU weren't reliable, so her behavior changed and she stopped seeing you as being someone who she could go to for whatever it is she wants (sex, comfort, activities) so it's no surprise she started looking for someone else.

 

From what I see, all of this "bad" behavior from her is your fault because of the way that you've treated her. By alternately punishing and rewarding her for both good and bad behavior she doesn't know what to do to get what she wants from you.

 

It's like if you went to the barber and sometimes he gave you a great haircut and other days he gave you a shit haircut. Even if he was a great guy or an extremely sexy girl, you'd get a new barber.

[Top 5]

Yeah, I think it's really hard to properly game more than about 4 or 5 women at a time, for sure, so limiting yourself to focusing on 5 is a great idea. I think though that you might need to work out (if you haven't already) some specific criteria for kicking girls out of the top 5 and replacing them.

 

I don't run this so strictly...I just tend to forget about the ones that are lower down and therefore message them less, but it sounds like with a more structured approach like it seems you're planning on taking that you will need some criteria for what gets them demoted.

[Chocolate in China]

Welcome to the party!

 

Glad you're doing well in China and I'm looking forward to hearing about more of your adventures and helping you get your game to the level you want it to be.

 

Can't wait!

[HB Kunta FR: The Full Saga & The Grande Finale]

Great FR! I also wish you'd written it sooner because you had plenty of opportunities to work on her sexual frames over the course of all those dates. I think it would have been possible to work through them because she seemed pretty emotionally invested in you.

 

You definitely waited too long to talk about sex, and her past relationship with her boyfriend. It seems that you assumed that the fact that she had sex in the past was enough to mean that she was cool with it and the fact that she doesn't really like it didn't seem to be a major barrier to you.

 

With Vision and HB Red Dress, she only fucked her boyfriends about once per year! PER YEAR! So, you really need a lot more information than you got out of her.

 

Did you run any LMR innoculators?

 

As for feeling bad...

 

"An orgasm is hardly the worst thing you can do to a person"

-Stephan Henman formerly of Ideagasms.com

[FR: HB BigTitsNurse]

Me: “I felt a very good connection / atmosphere between the two of us so I was also very surprised. Like destiny!” *shy face sticker*

 

She: That is a lie. Because it was very natural it seems you did not do that for the first time…

 

Me: I just felt something special when I saw YOU so I wanted to find out if YOU are a cool & fun person – YOU passed the test! *thumbs up sticker*

 

She: It is a good feeling right? Hihihi – thanks for saying these good things about me I was really happy while I was talking with YOU Oppa.

Always interesting when you see a girl fight a frame but you can plow over it and hold your own frame and win! Nice work.

 

On the way she asked me why I live in Gangnam so far from my University. And I said “It is a secret” and she just with a smile “okay I understand hihi…” giving me mischievous look. And then I said laughing “What do you understand” and she “Yeah there are a lot of clubs & bars her etc.” “And I said that is one reason I am here because it is a really nice area to live in – YOU know I used to live in Hongdae and Gangnam!” and she said “….It is okay you don`t have to explain but yeah I have to understand your living situation, right?” -> So I think here I should think about a goof response “WHY GANGNAM – because most girls always think it is because of the girls…”

Seems like you can just say that you moved there because that's where all of your friends live.

 

Then she also asked me about my sport activities and I told her that I used to do Strongman & Powerlifting in Switzerland. She r me what weights I lifted and I told her. She was impressed and gave me a thumbs up. Then I showed her my pictures on the phone.

Probably should also talk about how you help your friends train and you even gave a speech about weight training at a conference and guys flew in from Japan, Hong Kong, China, and Taipei.

 

“Did your parents know that YOU had a relationship with Korean girl – Did you tell your parents?”

So I think that here, you could have handled this much better. The issue is that she thinks that maybe you wouldn't so it's better to react like she's asking a very strange question by implying that you wouldn't tell your parents because they wouldn't like you dating a Korean girl.

 

So probably the best thing to do is to say, "Huh? Of course, why wouldn't I tell them?"

 

Then she'll realize that for you, this is really not a problem to date a girl from another country. Maybe you could even talk about how Switzerland has Italian, German and French parts so for you it's not strange at all to date someone from another country and it actually is a good thing because, blah, blah, blah.

 

I also asked her how open-minded her parents are if she is dating a foreigner. And she said her Dad seems to be more open-minded than her Mom. In the end she said it would be her decision. She asked me back and I told her that my parents do not really care and very open-minded. Especially since my Dad works in a international company and he got to know many interracial couples.

So you handled it a little better later on but I think that the way it sounds here, to accepted the frame that maybe it might be a problem.

 

Then on the way she said something really interesting: “Oh right you have so many girls, you already planned this and know all the places we go to…”

"I wanted to make sure that you have a great time with me so I planned out what we could do. Guys you dated before didn't do that?"

 

Then she'll either say they do in which case you're normal or she'll say they don't in which case you're better than them! Win/win.

 

She said she could meet on Saturday or Sunday too but she has to many assignment this week so she can`t and added “I know you want to meet me every day…!” whereas I responded “No, even every second!” and she laughed while I was getting her closer to me

NICE!

 

You ran this set really well. It must have been a shock that she didn't reply to your messages after it seemed t go so well on the Day 2. But I've had that happen plenty. Sad but true.

[SINGLE ZIPPER]

Nice work, man!

 

I want to reiterate Vision's point that you should have set a day 2 with her or at least a tentative day 2. This pre-empts common LMR objections like "you just want me for sex" and "I don't do one night stands" and other frames that make her seem slutty.

 

Love your "vagina whisperer" thread. I'm really curious to hear how women respond to that.

[HK BootCamp FR]

That was a great weekend, and you really were a lot more confident by the end of it. Really want to hear more about how you've applied what you learned after the boot camp. It's about a year now, so I imagine you've really put at a lot of it to work for you!

[Toronto Airport Brunette]

Her "yeah..well I was born in New York then moved to Connecticut and go to a private school in Massachusetts "

Me "oh cool so you're pretty much rich."(trying to tease I guess I failed)

Her "Haha no not really... sure..."

I run this kind of routine a lot. I always say something like:

That's ok, you can be honest with me. I LIKE rich girls. My mom will be so proud! *act out calling my mom and telling her the good news*

 

Her "no actually this is the first time traveling outside the United States"

Me "actually?"

Her "yeah"

Me (high five) "that's sick I feel proud I'm part of you're life's milestone moment."

Her "hahah "

You cut this thread too short. Should have followed up asking her how it was to travel abroad for the first time, and how her parents thought about it, etc. Also asking her about what she did on her first trip to China and what she thought and and whether she's planning to come back.

 

Me "So tell me about something cool about yourself?"

Her "hmm I hate this question I don't know how to respond."

Me "Anything?? Cmon you seem like a cool down to earth girl you gotta something.."

Her "ehhh... I'm just a very boring person."

Me "ok.. So Netflix?"

Her "haha no.. Blah blah blah"

You should be trying to make her feel good. Asking such an open ended question is a pretty high hoop, so if she can't jump through it but wants to, then make it a bit easier by asking a yes/no question or another open ended question that's easier like, "can you play any instruments?" "can you cook?" "what's one thing you're good at," or something like that.

 

There is no use in punishing her for trying to engage with you which is what you did here.

 

1) I need to be more relatable to people my age or younger. An issue I've been struggling with for a while

What do you think is the problem?

[Shanghai Chill Girl]

My friend even tried to stop me. He said "Not this one"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Basically I feel like I am treading ground on the next level.

And we're just getting started!

 

I would like to point out that this was a REALLY easy close. And if you think about that, consider how much better you could be doing with more effort.

 

I'm looking forward to hearing more of your screaming adventures, roomy!