Sean Monthly Deep Reflections

[Red Pill Philosopher]

Basic PUA Strategy for apartment:

I am 37 years old.  I am recently going through a divorce.  I am a “theory guy”.  I have read lots of books on PUA and listened to multiple seminars but I was full of shit because I never actually did anything…I just read books and listened to stuff.

I finished Kane’s boot camp on 10-1 or so.  I had hoped that that experience would jump start my ability to approach because that was what was preventing me from achieving any of my goals.  I know a lot about theory, but I did not have the ability to execute.

I had the goal of doing night game twice a month and approaching 3 girls every Monday-Thursday outside of my apartment complex.  I live far away and I wanted a Chinese GF to have sex with and practice Chinese with. 

My standards are relatively low.  I am hoping on settling for the first decent chick I can attract to have a practice GF after my divorce.  I hope to find a HB 6 or higher and she speaks no English.  I am not needing a girl to be super young, smart or interesting.  I want a “temporary LTR”. 

My strategy is basically going up to the girl and following this process:

1.       Walk down the street with my dog.

2.       Are you from JingKui?  (Name of apartment complex)

3.       After “Chun Guang” closed down all the restaurants…where do you eat?

4.       Jinkui is boring, what do you do for fun?

5.       Can I get your WeChat?

I have iterated several times and I think this strategy is the best I have come up with.  The dog helps with comfort.  The “Are you from Jinkui” helps with commonality and rapport.  The restaurants closing by ChunGuan gives me “logical reason” to talk with them.  The what do you do for fun is my away from food transition and gives a logical reason for the to give me their WeChat.

[Red Pill Philosopher]

2 month analysis:

I don’t know what to think.  In the two months after boot camp I have collected about 20 WeChats    I know without a doubt I have seen vast improvement.  I was doing day game 4 times a week for the first month and then I only did it that process for 2 weeks the next month. 

I am already starting to feel a little let down.  I did a lot of work before I did the boot camp.  I had read about 30 books about PUA and listened to about 300 hours of David DeAngelo seminars among other things.  I lost 35 kg of fat.  I have been working out 5 days a week.  I have been taking hair medication.  I have probably approached at least 100 girls after boot camp and this has resulted in one D2, zero D3s, and 0 lays.

I don’t know if I want to “quit” already, but it is getting harder to sustain the work without getting any tangible results in tangible outcomes.  The one thing I will say is that I know without a doubt I have improved my ability to approach.  This isn’t just a feeling.  The improvement is obvious.

AA is much diminished than before.  When I approach I am doing it with more confidence than before.  The boot camp and the time afterwards has really helped improve my skill but the end results aren’t really improving yet.

I have collected about 20 WeChats and contacted about 10 of them.  Of those 10 WeChats only 2 of them have responded at all and the rest only got a one or two line response and then nothing.  I know that if there are multiple girls not responding, and I am the only common denominator, it must be me and not them.  So now I need to do some reflecting and get some feedback from the community.

[Red Pill Philosopher]

My possible hypothesis around the lack of tangible outcomes:

Not enough skill: 

Maybe I am just not good enough at game.  I started at a very low level, and have improved to “ok”.  Maybe if I was “intermediate”, then I would have created more attraction to begin with, and I would have achieved better outcomes by now. When I went out with Jeffrey he was getting far more attraction than I was with similar situations.  Obviously, Kane as well got far different responses than I did.

Age mismatch:

I am a 37 year old white guy and almost all the women I approach are aged 22-26.  It is possible I am not getting any D2 because the women I am approaching are 10-15 years younger than me and they are not interested in dating an older guy.  The one girl that clearly wanted a D2 was aged 40 or so.  The 10 girls that didn’t want D2 were aged 25 or so.  I am not really trying for super young girls, it just so happens those are the only age girls out and about when I am sarging.  This is my current “story” that I tell my ego to explain my lack of results.  However, other people have told me it was bullshit.  Jeffrey is only two years younger than me and his results have been clearly different as well.

Value mismatch:

The three girls that I was most attracted to were HB 7-8.  Kane told me I am a 6-6.5.  It is possible they are not interested in D2 because they are higher value than me and have better options.  However, I also had problems getting a D2 with girls that have a lower value than me so that can’t be the whole reason.

Lack of physical attraction:

Maybe I am not attractive enough to find a GF.  I am 37, have a receding hairline, have a rating of 6, and don’t wear particularly nice clothes.  I have lost weight and got some hair back and improved my looks some, but maybe it is still insufficient and I am too “ugly” to get attraction.  This also can’t be true because I have not sealed the deal with girls of lower value.  Also, I don’t dress particularly well.

Not enough attraction to begin with:

Some of the girls did not eagerly give me their WeChat and I had to “push through”.  After trying to talk to them again, they will only respond a few lines of text because they just gave me their WeChat to be polite.  They were not interested in me to begin with.  If they were super interested, they would be more eager to talk on WeChat.

Bad location for pickup:

I have done about 80% of my approaches outside my apartment when work finishes.  I have not really alternated to other places.  Maybe the place where I am doing game is bad and that is why my results are bad.  There is about a 3-1 male to female ratio here and many of the girls that are here are married or have boyfriends.  The women are also younger.  If the demographics of the place where I do pickup is bad, then the results will be bad.

Already have boyfriends:

Because the place where I am doing pickup has a 2-1 ratio, it is possible I am not getting replies on WeChat because they already have boyfriends or husbands.

Not enough approaches:

Maybe I have not done enough approaches to expect results.  I only approach 3 women a day at most and I don’t really push it that hard anyways.   I haven’t really been doing it long enough to expect results. There have only been really 3-4 girls where I had genuine attraction with and it is possible these girls had boyfriends.

Just trying to get minimum:

I have been just trying to satisfy the minimum requirement which is 3 approaches.  I have not really even been focused on girls that I am really attracted to or even the best situations.  I just want to get it done in order to have done my “quota” for the day.  This attitude might be part of my lack of results.  Tit is not a “success” mindset.

Not trying to push it:

I haven’t really been pushing it in anyway.  As a result of me just wanting to “get it done” I am not transitioning into the next step for “what to do you do for fun” or “can I get your WeChat”.  Without trying to push it, it shouldn’t be a surprise I am not getting “tangible outcomes”

Bad Strategy:

I think my strategy of walking my dog, asking are your from JinKui, where do you eat after Chung Guan closed all the restarants, what do you do for fun, what’s your WeChat is a good strategy.  I have multiple crutches, and multiple “logical reasons” to talk with them, and we have multiple things in common.  Maybe my assumptions about the strategy are wrong.

[Red Pill Philosopher]

FR: HB Dog walker HB 5-6 Age 26

So I met HB Dog walker on the street walking her dog.  She is about 27 years old and a HB 5-6.  I used the normal “ChuanGuan routine” and then she said there was a place to get noodles.  I told her that I didn’t know where it is, then she pointed to down the street, then I said but I can read the menu…will you show me what you like.

That happened on Friday, we agreed to go on the next Monday.  She showed up about 30 minutes late which was OK.  We talked for a little bit and it wasn’t too exciting.  I didn’t make any mistakes, but it was mostly relatively boring conversation about “interview questions” level of topics.  I was definitely seeing some clear IOI.  I am pretty good at reading body language.  I could see a head tilt, hair twirling, and good eye contact.  As we were leaving she quickly paid for the bill before I could.  It was only about 20 RMB.  When we were walking home, I was like this is my house, and then started walking back in.

I am retarded.  I realized afterwards that I should have walked her back to her home which was just one complex over.  I also missed a chance for Kino and kiss.  I could instantly see in her facial expression that she had a look of “shock” and then she went home.  I understand my mistake, will not make it again, and reading body language helped me realize this mistake and I will NEVER  make it again.  This was my first date since my divorce and a part of the reason why I freezed up is because my dog has “dual custody” and my dog wasn’t with me that night.  I hadn’t told her that I was divorced yet or with kids.

I sent her a text later that night and even though she was showing IOI on the date, she politely told me that there “was no need”.  Basically, she was giving me “girl code” for no need to go on a second date.  In that text message she said asked if I was married.  I said no. Then I asked her why she asked that and she said I looked “older”. 

Analysis: I think without a doubt the not walking home killed any chance I had with her and honestly I don’t think I had “super high value” in her eyes to begin with.  It was my first date since the divorce and so I am not really worried about it.  I think the 10 year age difference was also a factor.

[Red Pill Philosopher]

HB KTV HB 6 Age 25

I was at a KTV bar with many Phillipina girls and saw this girl and immediately opened her.  Age 25 HB 6-7.  I have had great improvement since the boot camp a month before and did a good job.  I was super confident, had good Chinese, and she was giving me massive IOI.  The first time I have seen Bambi eyes.  I thought this was going to be my new GF.  We went apart after 5 min or so then she even came into my room to say bye to me.  She texted me the next day and told me she was going on business trip the next day for two weeks.  I didn’t text her. 

A week later she texted me back and initiated chat with me.  We sent texts for about an hour one day during class.  When she asked me how long I have been in China I told her 14 years.  I think this was a mistake because then maybe that is when she realized I was 37. 

When I tried to set up a date, she was a little bit flaky, a little avoidant, and wouldn’t set up a time with me.  I thought she was playing “hard to get” so I waited a week to contact her back.  At first she was super eager and contacted me but now if I send her a message once a week she is not very responsive at all.  Now the response is minimal.  I think she thinks I am “too old” but maybe that is just my excuse.

I don’t really understand this one because she seemed more eager than me.  Maybe I was a little needy but I don’t think that is the problem.  With HB Dog Walker, I know where I fucked up.  But with HB KTV I don’t know why she is no longer interested.   I think age difference…

UPDATE: While writing this, I contacted her again and she appears to be more receptive.  She says she is really busy at work and will have more time after winter holiday.  Hmmmm….she suddenly seems more interested but that might be because we are talking about going out after Chinese New Year which is two months away and she can flake out later.  Obviously, if she was interested she wouldn’t want to wait that long.  I am confused.

[Red Pill Philosopher]

HB Philosopher HB 5.5-6 Age 24

This girl I really like.  She went to USA for University and her English is perfect.  We have spent about 10 hours together total talking about philosophy, evolution and a wide range of topics.   I think she is attracted to my brain and personality.  She isn’t that pretty but she is super smart and great at conversation.  Another guy in our chat group said “You two should date” and she said unequivocally she does not date older guys now because she had a 5 year relationship with a guy 15 years older than her when she was 19.  I think again age difference is the deciding factor and I don’t think it was just used as an excuse.  This girl is super smart.  I would have LTRed in a heartbeat even though she is an HB 5.

HB Wonder Woman HB 7-8  Age 26

I opened her on Halloween and then sent her a text regarding her costume.  She said thank you 36 hours later.  I tried to send another text and she never responded.  She is clearly not interested.  I think possible there was a value mismatch or the age gap is too large.

HB Hot Sichuan HB 7-8 Age 25

This girl is really hot.  I was talking with her for a while as she walked and she hesitated when I asked for her WeChat.  She barely responded right after I got her WeChat and then was completely non-responsive after that.

HB New Zealand HB 7-8 Age 25

She hesitated when I asked for her WeChat.  She barely responded right after I got her WeChat and then was completely non-responsive after that.

HB Finance Blogger HB 5 Age 40

This girl I opened at Zapatas and then asked her out for coffee.  I was busy so we never went on a D2. 

I saw her again another time at Zapatas.  We talked for awhile, it was good and I think a D2 would be available if I wanted it.  I don’t really want it.    She showed interest the first time and agreed to D2 already, and was eager to talk to me the second time.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Red Pill Philosopher

[ShinChoc]

Great job on getting this written!

8 hours ago, Red Pill Philosopher said:

If they were super interested, they would be more eager to talk on WeChat

hehe let's not make too many assumptions....you'd probably be surprised by the behavior supposedly keen girls will present to you over text message. But, yeah, generally if girls aren't responding to your messages, it's because your D1 wasn't as tight as it could have been.

8 hours ago, Red Pill Philosopher said:

Obviously, if she was interested she wouldn’t want to wait that long.

Too many negative assumptions....

Reading through your report, it seems pretty clear to me that most of your problems come from making what might be called "newb moves." Basically, you are new to pickup, and after taking your bootcamp you do some things correctly and a good amount of things incorrectly. I'd go into more detail, but it's almost 1am and I need to wake up at 7am ?

I'm not sure if you watched my seminar speech (I suggest you do, I think it's pretty golden if I don't say so myself hehe), but during that speech I talked about the sacrifices that I've had to make (and continue to make) to learn pickup. Based off what you've written in the chat groups, you seem to  be hoping that you would spend a couple months after bootcamp gaming, gain a LTR of some sort, and then have a girl who could hold you down during the tumultuous period you might be soon heading to as you focus on business. Seems like there is still a little more work in the pickup arena to do before you will get that LTR.

Unfortunately, for most men on this planet, pickup isn't something that you can get good at in a short period of time. Like many skills, it takes constant effort and sacrifice. It's up to you to decide how much you are willing to sacrifice to level up in this skill. I definitely think that it would be a wonderful skill for you to have, as I seem to notice traces of mental/emotional weakness and self-loathing in your writing, and I think that learning pickup would give you the emotional resilience you need to handle whatever life throws at you.

I'd suggest that you sit down and map out some kind of goal list for what you'd like to accomplish in life in the next 3-6 months, and then post it on this forum (my bad if you already posted it here and I didn't see it, please direct me to it if you did). Find out how you can continue to make pickup a regular part of your life. Be aware that in the short term sacrifices are likely going to need to be made. Some weeks/months you might be focusing on pickup at the expense of other things, some weeks/months you might be focusing on other things at the expense of pickup. The key is that you are aware that all of this hard work and sacrifice is leading you closer and closer to a higher-quality life. This is a journey that we are all on together, don't get discouraged because the beginning of your journey is starting off a little rocky. It took me something like 4 months to get laid after I first took the bootcamp, and that was after a good number of near-closes where I was literally minutes away from penetrating a girl but made some kind of foolish mistake.  

Sure, it's possible that your age could be playing some small role in girl's behavior towards you, but from what you wrote, based on your game skills, bad logisitics, not-super-positive internal monologue, misguided texting behaviors, etc.- it's pretty clear to me that there are other issues that are likely holding you back that have nothing to do with your age. Do you know the master PUA Bexter? He's somewhere in his 40s and apparently still flying around the world banging hot chicks. Not saying you need to imitate his lifestyle, but he's an example of a guy in his 40s who is doing better than most men half his age. Anyway, just be patient and keep moving forward. You will 100% see increased success when you tighten up all of the things in your game and life setup. I'll leave the detailed feedback for Martin and Kane, but let me know if you have any specific questions for me! ?

[kanevast]

On 12/6/2018 at 3:52 PM, Red Pill Philosopher said:

Basic PUA Strategy for apartment:

I am 37 years old.  I am recently going through a divorce.  I am a “theory guy”.  I have read lots of books on PUA and listened to multiple seminars but I was full of shit because I never actually did anything…I just read books and listened to stuff.

I finished Kane’s boot camp on 10-1 or so.  I had hoped that that experience would jump start my ability to approach because that was what was preventing me from achieving any of my goals.  I know a lot about theory, but I did not have the ability to execute.

I had the goal of doing night game twice a month and approaching 3 girls every Monday-Thursday outside of my apartment complex.  I live far away and I wanted a Chinese GF to have sex with and practice Chinese with. 

My standards are relatively low.  I am hoping on settling for the first decent chick I can attract to have a practice GF after my divorce.  I hope to find a HB 6 or higher and she speaks no English.  I am not needing a girl to be super young, smart or interesting.  I want a “temporary LTR”. 

My strategy is basically going up to the girl and following this process:

1.       Walk down the street with my dog.

2.       Are you from JingKui?  (Name of apartment complex)

3.       After “Chun Guang” closed down all the restaurants…where do you eat?

4.       Jinkui is boring, what do you do for fun?

5.       Can I get your WeChat?

I have iterated several times and I think this strategy is the best I have come up with.  The dog helps with comfort.  The “Are you from Jinkui” helps with commonality and rapport.  The restaurants closing by ChunGuan gives me “logical reason” to talk with them.  The what do you do for fun is my away from food transition and gives a logical reason for the to give me their WeChat.

 

Why is the opener '' are you from x apartment complex'?

The main reason you will have trouble with this is that you're skipping a bunch of the steps and not really displaying any value nor really building any comfort.

From the girls perspective, you've approached her with some questions and then asked her for wechat.

Where is the part thats generating attraction or giving her a reason to see you again?

Your notes at the end of the quoted section aren't incorrect but they are insufficient because you're repeating the theory behind the moves, not the experience of the girl.

 

On 12/6/2018 at 3:53 PM, Red Pill Philosopher said:

I don’t know what to think.  In the two months after boot camp I have collected about 20 WeChats    I know without a doubt I have seen vast improvement.  I was doing day game 4 times a week for the first month and then I only did it that process for 2 weeks the next month. 

I am already starting to feel a little let down.  I did a lot of work before I did the boot camp.  I had read about 30 books about PUA and listened to about 300 hours of David DeAngelo seminars among other things.  I lost 35 kg of fat.  I have been working out 5 days a week.  I have been taking hair medication.  I have probably approached at least 100 girls after boot camp and this has resulted in one D2, zero D3s, and 0 lays.

I don’t know if I want to “quit” already, but it is getting harder to sustain the work without getting any tangible results in tangible outcomes.  The one thing I will say is that I know without a doubt I have improved my ability to approach.  This isn’t just a feeling.  The improvement is obvious.

AA is much diminished than before.  When I approach I am doing it with more confidence than before.  The boot camp and the time afterwards has really helped improve my skill but the end results aren’t really improving yet.

I have collected about 20 WeChats and contacted about 10 of them.  Of those 10 WeChats only 2 of them have responded at all and the rest only got a one or two line response and then nothing.  I know that if there are multiple girls not responding, and I am the only common denominator, it must be me and not them.  So now I need to do some reflecting and get some feedback from the community.

 

You should really increase the numbers of girls you're approaching, modify how you're approaching them and you should be REVIEWING your results properly.

I.e writing field reports - as they help you identify the necessary changes to progress quickly.

Also you should meet girls in more than just one environment.

It's great that you've improved your ability to approach, as for improving the end results you really really really need to be putting your experiences down on the forum and getting feedback, also taking part in the groups a lot more would be helpful.

Also I don't know what you've been messaging or doing with the 20 wechat contacts you've gotten, if you've only contacted them once etc etc.

So posting screen shots of your convo with them or at least sharing what their responses have been and what you've been sending is paramount to improving the situation.

 

On 12/6/2018 at 3:54 PM, Red Pill Philosopher said:

My possible hypothesis around the lack of tangible outcomes:

Not enough skill: 

Maybe I am just not good enough at game.  I started at a very low level, and have improved to “ok”.  Maybe if I was “intermediate”, then I would have created more attraction to begin with, and I would have achieved better outcomes by now. When I went out with Jeffrey he was getting far more attraction than I was with similar situations.  Obviously, Kane as well got far different responses than I did.

Age mismatch:

I am a 37 year old white guy and almost all the women I approach are aged 22-26.  It is possible I am not getting any D2 because the women I am approaching are 10-15 years younger than me and they are not interested in dating an older guy.  The one girl that clearly wanted a D2 was aged 40 or so.  The 10 girls that didn’t want D2 were aged 25 or so.  I am not really trying for super young girls, it just so happens those are the only age girls out and about when I am sarging.  This is my current “story” that I tell my ego to explain my lack of results.  However, other people have told me it was bullshit.  Jeffrey is only two years younger than me and his results have been clearly different as well.

Value mismatch:

The three girls that I was most attracted to were HB 7-8.  Kane told me I am a 6-6.5.  It is possible they are not interested in D2 because they are higher value than me and have better options.  However, I also had problems getting a D2 with girls that have a lower value than me so that can’t be the whole reason.

Lack of physical attraction:

Maybe I am not attractive enough to find a GF.  I am 37, have a receding hairline, have a rating of 6, and don’t wear particularly nice clothes.  I have lost weight and got some hair back and improved my looks some, but maybe it is still insufficient and I am too “ugly” to get attraction.  This also can’t be true because I have not sealed the deal with girls of lower value.  Also, I don’t dress particularly well.

 

Jeffrey has been out actively in field practising for a long time and did his bootcamp quite a while ago, I've got had a lot of infield experience, so don't expect yourself to garner the same results, just look for the bits and pieces you can use to improve your Game, going out with more experienced people is great and you should keep it up.

The age thing - nah, for some girls it may be a thing but for most it isn't, it's different from back home.

I'm 33.

The girls 'not wanting' a day 2 isn't going to be about you as a person, it's going to be about their experience with you, 'Game' is a persuasion method used in the context of dating, so we are trying to break down and refine each section of our interaction with women.

So unless they really really know you, they aren't basing their decision on ''you'' so much as they are on your behavior.

As for them not coming out - there are likely lots of tweaks you could make to change that, it's really difficult to say without you showing us more of whats going on.

 

Value thing - really hard to say as it's not that simple.

 

Physical attraction - I bet you've seen plenty of guys less attractive than yourself with girls, so dont worry about that.

You could improve the dressing area of things, as that always helps raise your value.

 

On 12/6/2018 at 3:54 PM, Red Pill Philosopher said:

Not enough attraction to begin with:

Some of the girls did not eagerly give me their WeChat and I had to “push through”.  After trying to talk to them again, they will only respond a few lines of text because they just gave me their WeChat to be polite.  They were not interested in me to begin with.  If they were super interested, they would be more eager to talk on WeChat.

Bad location for pickup:

I have done about 80% of my approaches outside my apartment when work finishes.  I have not really alternated to other places.  Maybe the place where I am doing game is bad and that is why my results are bad.  There is about a 3-1 male to female ratio here and many of the girls that are here are married or have boyfriends.  The women are also younger.  If the demographics of the place where I do pickup is bad, then the results will be bad.

Already have boyfriends:

Because the place where I am doing pickup has a 2-1 ratio, it is possible I am not getting replies on WeChat because they already have boyfriends or husbands.

Not enough approaches:

Maybe I have not done enough approaches to expect results.  I only approach 3 women a day at most and I don’t really push it that hard anyways.   I haven’t really been doing it long enough to expect results. There have only been really 3-4 girls where I had genuine attraction with and it is possible these girls had boyfriends.

Just trying to get minimum:

I have been just trying to satisfy the minimum requirement which is 3 approaches.  I have not really even been focused on girls that I am really attracted to or even the best situations.  I just want to get it done in order to have done my “quota” for the day.  This attitude might be part of my lack of results.  Tit is not a “success” mindset.

Not enough attraction - how long are you interacting with them for?

To me it sounds like you just need to really practice creating attraction in women, as i've said before, I think you should do it in a variety of environments that have varying difficulty levels as that will make it easier for you to see the right signals so you know when you're doing it really right.

Bad location - yeah thats definitely a possibility, I think you should try a bunch of different places, as it's getting cold this will influence things somewhat, shopping malls, book stores, the metro and other parts of Shanghai are definitely worth checking out, you don't have to do it alone.

Boyfriends - maybe, too hard to say, also it doesn't always matter.

Not enough approaches - Yeah i think that you definitely should be doing more, the more data you get the easier it is to improve things and the higher chances you have of converting.

The girls you've already hit up - its highly likely you could improve things with them via text and convert them, show us where it's at in the group so we can give you feedback, or feel free to post it here.

Trying to get minimum - Yeah this is a real problem.

Why do you think this is?

I understand that learning the theory of things is where your comfort zone is, you've also shown a lot of umphf in doing the foot work...so why not get something from that?

[kanevast]

On 12/6/2018 at 3:55 PM, Red Pill Philosopher said:

So I met HB Dog walker on the street walking her dog.  She is about 27 years old and a HB 5-6.  I used the normal “ChuanGuan routine” and then she said there was a place to get noodles.  I told her that I didn’t know where it is, then she pointed to down the street, then I said but I can read the menu…will you show me what you like.

That happened on Friday, we agreed to go on the next Monday.  She showed up about 30 minutes late which was OK.  We talked for a little bit and it wasn’t too exciting.  I didn’t make any mistakes, but it was mostly relatively boring conversation about “interview questions” level of topics.  I was definitely seeing some clear IOI.  I am pretty good at reading body language.  I could see a head tilt, hair twirling, and good eye contact.  As we were leaving she quickly paid for the bill before I could.  It was only about 20 RMB.  When we were walking home, I was like this is my house, and then started walking back in.

I am retarded.  I realized afterwards that I should have walked her back to her home which was just one complex over.  I also missed a chance for Kino and kiss.  I could instantly see in her facial expression that she had a look of “shock” and then she went home.  I understand my mistake, will not make it again, and reading body language helped me realize this mistake and I will NEVER  make it again.  This was my first date since my divorce and a part of the reason why I freezed up is because my dog has “dual custody” and my dog wasn’t with me that night.  I hadn’t told her that I was divorced yet or with kids.

I sent her a text later that night and even though she was showing IOI on the date, she politely told me that there “was no need”.  Basically, she was giving me “girl code” for no need to go on a second date.  In that text message she said asked if I was married.  I said no. Then I asked her why she asked that and she said I looked “older”. 

Analysis: I think without a doubt the not walking home killed any chance I had with her and honestly I don’t think I had “super high value” in her eyes to begin with.  It was my first date since the divorce and so I am not really worried about it.  I think the 10 year age difference was also a factor.

Good job on posting this up.

Her asking if you were married was because for Chinese people being unmarried past 25 is weird, you could tell her that you were divorced and it probably wouldn't be a big issue so long as you dont show lots of negative emotion about it.

What could you do to make the convo more interesting?

You ideally should pay the bill on the first date, usually if you pay for one thing the girl will contribute for another, this also somewhat depends on the girls financial means ( an 18 year old college student vs a 25 year old girl with a job)

The whole walking inside thing isn't too great, live and learn.

During the date you ideally should be seeding things for the next date so you have an obvious direction forward, you should also be asking the girl questions to figure out how she fits into your life/your short or long term goals.

It is ur first date since ur divorce, so don't be hard on yourself, just be objective and move forwards.

The no need thing - its unclear what you mean here, usually if the girl isnt interested at all she wont respond again after the date.

You don't need super high value, you just need good enough.

 

As for a first date venue, you could probably come up with some better places than the cheap noodles.

 

It's awesome you wrote this up, you should use the format of:

 

Things I did well

Things i will do better

Realizations

 

Ill respond to the other posts tomorrow.

[kanevast]

On 12/6/2018 at 3:55 PM, Red Pill Philosopher said:

I was at a KTV bar with many Phillipina girls and saw this girl and immediately opened her.  Age 25 HB 6-7.  I have had great improvement since the boot camp a month before and did a good job.  I was super confident, had good Chinese, and she was giving me massive IOI.  The first time I have seen Bambi eyes.  I thought this was going to be my new GF.  We went apart after 5 min or so then she even came into my room to say bye to me.  She texted me the next day and told me she was going on business trip the next day for two weeks.  I didn’t text her. 

A week later she texted me back and initiated chat with me.  We sent texts for about an hour one day during class.  When she asked me how long I have been in China I told her 14 years.  I think this was a mistake because then maybe that is when she realized I was 37. 

When I tried to set up a date, she was a little bit flaky, a little avoidant, and wouldn’t set up a time with me.  I thought she was playing “hard to get” so I waited a week to contact her back.  At first she was super eager and contacted me but now if I send her a message once a week she is not very responsive at all.  Now the response is minimal.  I think she thinks I am “too old” but maybe that is just my excuse.

I don’t really understand this one because she seemed more eager than me.  Maybe I was a little needy but I don’t think that is the problem.  With HB Dog Walker, I know where I fucked up.  But with HB KTV I don’t know why she is no longer interested.   I think age difference…

UPDATE: While writing this, I contacted her again and she appears to be more receptive.  She says she is really busy at work and will have more time after winter holiday.  Hmmmm….she suddenly seems more interested but that might be because we are talking about going out after Chinese New Year which is two months away and she can flake out later.  Obviously, if she was interested she wouldn’t want to wait that long.  I am confused.

Why didn't you text her back when she texted you? Not doing so is a big no no as she signalled interest by telling you her schedule and you signalled disinterest by ignoring her.

Also if you're getting attraction in that moment, CAPITALISE ON IT as it's not something that will last a long period of time while shes away from you, compliance is what matters, good reactions are enjoyable but wont necessarily lead to anything useful whereas measuring and pushing for more compliance will.

I seriously doubt its the 'too old' thing, reinforcing negative limiting beliefs isnt good for you, so stop it and focus on what will help you.

Her lack of response is far more likely to be because she feels like you're not interested in her or she found a better option during that time because you didn't reciprocate, you also have to factor in peoples varying emotional states.

A lot of girls can be keen one day and then somewhat different the next because of the emotional turbulence in their own lives, so don't automatically attribute everything to yourself or being about you.

What happens if you invite her out to something next week? i.e have you tried, if so what was her response?  

[kanevast]

On 12/6/2018 at 3:56 PM, Red Pill Philosopher said:

HB Philosopher HB 5.5-6 Age 24

This girl I really like.  She went to USA for University and her English is perfect.  We have spent about 10 hours together total talking about philosophy, evolution and a wide range of topics.   I think she is attracted to my brain and personality.  She isn’t that pretty but she is super smart and great at conversation.  Another guy in our chat group said “You two should date” and she said unequivocally she does not date older guys now because she had a 5 year relationship with a guy 15 years older than her when she was 19.  I think again age difference is the deciding factor and I don’t think it was just used as an excuse.  This girl is super smart.  I would have LTRed in a heartbeat even though she is an HB 5.

HB Wonder Woman HB 7-8  Age 26

I opened her on Halloween and then sent her a text regarding her costume.  She said thank you 36 hours later.  I tried to send another text and she never responded.  She is clearly not interested.  I think possible there was a value mismatch or the age gap is too large.

HB Hot Sichuan HB 7-8 Age 25

This girl is really hot.  I was talking with her for a while as she walked and she hesitated when I asked for her WeChat.  She barely responded right after I got her WeChat and then was completely non-responsive after that.

HB New Zealand HB 7-8 Age 25

She hesitated when I asked for her WeChat.  She barely responded right after I got her WeChat and then was completely non-responsive after that.

HB Finance Blogger HB 5 Age 40

This girl I opened at Zapatas and then asked her out for coffee.  I was busy so we never went on a D2. 

I saw her again another time at Zapatas.  We talked for awhile, it was good and I think a D2 would be available if I wanted it.  I don’t really want it.    She showed interest the first time and agreed to D2 already, and was eager to talk to me the second time.

HB Philosopher - women say a lot of things and then do a lot of things different from what they said, attraction is not a choice, it just means there MIGHT be an obstacle because of her previous negative experience, so avoid triggering anything similar to that and it will likely still go down.

You have to be looking for how you can make things work instead of why they can't work, even if it's irrational because you will get whatever you're focusing on.

Hb Wonderwoman - girls not responding to a single text doesn't mean they aren't interested, a lot of Asian girls are gonna require more legwork than you would expect because they have a lot more options and there isnt much of a chase dynamic from woman to man here unless it's the ceo of baidu's son or something.

So if your first message to her was saying her outfit was good and she responded by saying thank you, then the issue is that your message needs to be constructed in a way to give her more to talk about or respond to.

You may message girls a few times with no response at all and then eventually they hit you back and are really keen, simply cause they broke up with the bf or were sad and now they aren't or they thought you were a player and didn't really like them but because you hit them up a bunch they realize you do actually like them.

HB Sichuan - You should be pinging girls once a week, every week.

HB NZ - How long was the interaction?

HB Finanace - If you're not that keen on this girl, find two more replacements and work on them.

 

1. Please post these at the bottom of your FRs

Things i did well

Things I will do better

Realizations

 

2. We really need to know approx how long the interaction with each girl was and some vague idea of the content as this would enable us to give better feedback

3. Are you bt spiking these girls? kinoing? qualifying?

 

[RedpoleQ]

It seems to me that reading all that western material has crippled your understanding of how things work with Asian girl.

In the west, you can run a lot of your game strictly on attraction. Not true with Asian girls where I'd argue that QUALIFICATION is the most important phase. In the west, that's not important because girls are so entitled they think they deserve everything. So if a guys runs a lot of attraction and is desirable, western women will fall all over themselves trying to get him.

Asian girls are looking for a guy who really likes and wants to be with them, hence lots of qualification. Playing aloof will almost always blow you out. They aren't interested in some guys who is just going to fuck them and leave.

I think this is your biggest problem coupled with the fact that you run your day 1s too short. To really run a solid set with a high percentage chance of a girl showing up for a day 2, you need 15-20min. 

Sure girls will show up on less than that, but the shorter the set the more you're relying on luck than skill. Also, that means that you didn't have time to run much attraction, qualification or comfort, so you'll need to do a lot of that over text. For girls you're keen on you'll have to text them DAILY. Especially if they're any good.

Typically it takes 3 months of solid effort to get results and you haven't been getting any feedback to correct your problems so you have only improved the things you KNOW need to be improved (the approach) and haven't spent any time on the things you don't know about which is A LOT. This means that you've basically been doing the same thing for the past 2 months which is why you haven't progressed further.

Congrats on your first date since your divorce! That's a great step to make. 

And just to bury your age concerns, @quantumleap is 52 and he usually bangs girls that are around 25yo. He just closed a 24yo last week, so age is not an excuse. Sure, being younger is better...so is having more money. But you can be successful enough anyway.

"Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better"
-Jim Rhone

Check out @The Animal's Sexy Summer Challenge and Winter Weather Hustle and you'll see what progress looks like.

Good work and keep at it!